104. Her Circle: How A Mother Turned Trauma Into A Movement For Dignity with Amy Van Zyl

In this episode, we speak with Amy Van Zyl about trauma, motherhood, and dignity within child-protection systems. Amy shares her experience of losing her children for eight and a half months following a mental health crisis, and how that period informed the creation of Her Circle, a charity led by women with lived experience.

The conversation delves into the complexities of motherhood, the limitations of risk-focused assessments, and why practical support is often lacking when families need it most. We also discuss trust, advocacy, and what meaningful recovery looks like when systems are willing to listen.

To learn more about Amy’s work and the charity Her Circle, visit: https://www.hercirclene.co.uk.

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Produced by Henry Chukwunyerenwa

Chapters

• 0:00 Mission And Guest Introduction
• 0:30 Amy’s Crisis And Child Removal
• 3:40 From Corporate To Public Health
• 6:40 Founding Her Circle And Charity Status
• 10:25 Lived Experience Shapes Leadership
• 17:30 Complex Motherhood Defined
• 22:00 Misconceptions And Invisible Stigma
• 29:10 Evolution To Three Pillars
• 36:40 Research Insights: Still A Mam

Transcript

1) Amy’s story and the origin of Her Circle

Host: 00:30
Can you start by sharing a little bit about your journey and what led you to join Her Circle?

Amy: 00:36
My journey in this area of work started about eight years ago — actually, eight years ago this month. I had a mental health breakdown, and my children were removed by social services. It was the worst experience of my life and my family’s life.

My children were removed, and for eight and a half months we went through a process of trying to prove I was fit to have them. After eight and a half months, I did prove that, and I got my children back in my care.

Before that, I’d worked in the corporate sector — sales and marketing — so I had no experience of this. I had no background and I was completely ill-equipped to deal with it… though I now realise I was much better equipped than many of the women I work with today.

After that, I decided to retrain. I did a degree in public health and started to understand the reasons that underlie child removal. I wrote my dissertation on child removal as a public health issue, and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

While I was studying, I started working in the third sector and the women’s sector. I ended up as interim chief exec at a recovery charity. Someone suggested I run a group for women who had experienced child removal — which I felt wholly unqualified to do — but I did it anyway.

It was transformative to sit in a room and listen to other women talk about having their children removed by social services — where life had taken them, and how they recovered.

There was one woman I met. She had six children, and four of them had been removed in different ways. One of her sons had been adopted — but she knew who he was. She managed to find a podcast he’d recorded with a friend on Spotify, just messing about and playing guitar, and she listened to it every night before bed. She was in her 60s when I met her, and her son was in his 20s. I couldn’t undo what I felt in that room. I felt completely connected to those women in a way I’d never experienced before.

Around that time, I also knew there was a group of amazing women who met to talk about this issue — women from legal, health, women’s services, and the voluntary sector. It was the beginning of COVID, so I asked them for a Teams meeting. I shared my story, and I shared what I’d learned from sitting with other women.

And then, right before the Teams call, I realised what I wanted to ask. I told them those stories and said: “I’m thinking of starting a CIC (a Community Interest Company). Would you like to be the board?” They all nodded and said yes — let’s do it.

That was 2020, so about five and a half years ago now. And you’ve got an exclusive: we’ve just been granted charitable status — so we’ve moved on from being a CIC and we’re now a registered charity. We’ve gone from strength to strength.

Host: 04:11
No, absolutely. Congratulations — we’re so glad you’ve got charitable status now.

Amy: 04:15
Thank you — we’re very pleased.

2) Lived experience and leadership

Host: 04:17
You’ve spoken about your lived experience. How has that shaped your leadership style and the way Her Circle operates now?

Amy: 04:26
It’s fundamental to what we do. At Her Circle we say everything is designed by women with lived experience — and that includes me as CEO — but it’s by no means a dictatorship. It’s the opposite.

We have an absolutely sparkling board of trustees — incredible women — but they don’t decide the direction of the organisation. They make it possible for the women’s direction to happen.

Everything we do is designed from lived experience — particularly lived experience of recovery, not just adversity — because we want to be a bridge back to “normal living”. Services often understand how women end up in really difficult circumstances, but what’s less understood is how women thrive.

When my children were removed, it was harrowing. I went from having full custody to five and a half hours a week of supervised contact. You lose input on what your children eat, where they go, what they wear — and it sounds small, but it isn’t. A lot of women feel a deep, primal sense of connection and responsibility — “my babies are mine” — and when children are removed, all those decisions disappear.

Even little things matter. Babies in temporary foster care might go with suitcases of clothes their mums bought, and then the mum sees the child and the clothes aren’t used because the foster carer doesn’t like them. You just want to say: who cares if you don’t like them? Give the woman a tiny sense of control back.

So in designing services, women have to feel ownership and control over our space, our direction, and what we do. This has to be theirs.

I also recognise that, as hard as it was for me, I had huge advantages. I wasn’t living in poverty. I had secure housing. I had support. I didn’t have domestic abuse. I had a supportive partner.

The women we work with often have layers of difficulty — insecure housing, poverty, violence, substance misuse — and we ask: how do we reduce the complexities around them?

I got my children back — but most women don’t. The figures often cited are that only around 10% of parents in care proceedings end with children returned. Even when children are placed “within family”, the pain can still be excruciating. In my case, my children were placed with my sister — and it ripped our family apart. We’ve never recovered. Those are ripple effects that last.

3) What “complex motherhood” means

Host: 09:34
For listeners who may not have heard the term before, what does complex motherhood mean?

Amy: 09:41
Complex motherhood is a term we use to describe the experiences of women we see in service — women who, at any given time, may be experiencing domestic abuse, poverty, substance misuse, poor mental health; they may have contact with the criminal justice system; they may have histories of care, or sexual and physical abuse in childhood or adulthood. Women experiencing complex motherhood are much more likely to have their children placed into care.

4) Misconceptions about mothers and child removal

Host: 10:15
What do you feel are the biggest misconceptions about mothers going through these challenges?

Amy: 10:22
The biggest misconception is that women who have their children removed are child abusers.

Children are removed under suspicion of risk of harm — to avoid abuse or neglect — but many of the women we work with are not abusing their children. They have unmet health and social needs, and families suffer because support isn’t there.

We work with women with disabilities raising children with disabilities, who’ve asked for in-home support for years — help with care, school runs, practical support — and the resources weren’t provided. Eventually, they felt forced into signing children into care — “voluntarily” (and I say that with air quotes) — because once a child is in care, the wraparound support exists. Some women reach extreme despair because there’s nothing to lighten the load.

We also see women whose children are removed because they were in relationships with men who harmed them or harmed the child — and when the woman seeks help, she’s judged as if she didn’t act “quickly enough”. Sometimes, despite the man having a known history of violence, systems still treat it as “only her word against his”, and the child is removed “to be safe”.

I wish removals were only about intentional harm — we do need systems to protect children — but that’s not what complex motherhood is. It’s often about needs being treated as choices — for example, saying women “choose” perpetrators when sometimes the alternative is homelessness because there’s nowhere safe to go.

I can think of one woman whose baby was removed at birth pending further assessment. She was doing incredibly well, but she’d been trying to move house for months with no support. There were no safeguards that actually removed the perpetrator — he was even invited into the same meetings as her — and then he broke into her home and violently assaulted her. She was offered a mother-and-baby unit far away; taking it would reduce her daily contact with her baby, which could be interpreted as not engaging. She’s trapped in a no-win scenario — and again, she hasn’t harmed her child. It’s domestic abuse that hasn’t been met with proper protection.

5) Why child removal is hidden and stigmatised

Host: 14:57
Why do you feel child removal is such a hidden and stigmatised issue?

Amy: 15:08
If a system says children are removed to stop abuse, and your child is taken away, you internalise the narrative that you’re an abuser — so why would you speak out?

I didn’t speak out, and I was relatively privileged compared to many women I work with. I identify as experiencing complex motherhood — I just didn’t have the deprivation element. I didn’t speak about it at all, and I’ve only spoken publicly in the last couple of months — eight years later — and I still feel reluctant.

At Her Circle, we don’t ask women to share personal stories one-by-one. We use “we” statements and collective narratives — because we can stand shoulder-to-shoulder and be proud of each other, but still carry shame ourselves.

And socially, if you’re not working in this area and you’ve never experienced it, how would you come into contact with the reality? People assume the system is robust and protective. People also have ideas about adoption as “saving babies” — a saviour narrative — but the reality is more complex. Many adoptions break down. More children reach out to birth parents. What we’ve been raised to believe doesn’t always match what’s happening.

6) How Her Circle grew

Host: 17:14
Her Circle began as a small peer-support project and has grown into a big movement — and you’ve just achieved charitable status. How did that evolution happen?

Amy: 17:25
Really slowly — over five years. I was part-time CEO until this year.

It began with me and one volunteer sitting in an empty room, just letting people know we’d be there. We sat in an empty room for six weeks before women started to come. Then it grew week by week. Women asked for things — an art group, more activities — and we built it around what they wanted.

We realised we wanted to work in three areas:

1. Direct support for women’s recovery (pre-removal, during proceedings, and crucially after proceedings).
2. Research, elevating women’s voices and experiences.
3. Systems change, influencing how systems operate.

One early research project was Still a Mam, which I love. It shared the stories of 10 women and drew out themes.

Over time we rebranded and renamed as Her Circle. It was interesting — a few men we work with didn’t like the name and pushed back, which I found revealing. The brand work then shaped our pillars into: Her Support, Her Impact, and Her Circle — which was brilliant.

Now we’ve achieved charitable status. We’ve started a systems change project with the Maternal Mental Health Alliance. We partner with universities and local institutions. Gateshead Council are a strong research partner. And our services now run four days a week — arts, health, education, recovery from domestic abuse, peer support. It’s blossomed.

7) Findings from Still a Mam and The Listening Project

Host: 22:56
You mentioned Still a Mam and The Listening Project. What are the most striking insights from these studies?

Amy: 23:10
The Listening Project identified six themes that come up repeatedly. Still a Mam explored two topics in depth — including how important relationships are, and how difficult it is to build trust in those environments.

Women often sit in rooms with professionals trained to degree or master’s level, using frameworks applied to their family, while the woman has none of that support. Professionals operate in a professional environment; women are living it in their own homes, in crisis.

I sometimes say to students: think of the last real fight you had with family — now imagine that happening in your workplace. You’d be fired. But women are judged through that lens, in their most stressful moments.

Another insight is how possible recovery is — but the timeframes often don’t allow it. Sometimes women begin to grow only after proceedings conclude — the pressure becomes unbearable during proceedings. We’re interested in how to reduce pressure while women still have a chance of reunification.

Schools understand anxiety: when my son did SATs, they gave the children breakfast, had music and movement to reduce anxiety — because calmer children perform better. There’s very little equivalent to calm women down during proceedings, even though they’re being assessed under extreme stress.

8) Challenging systems and institutional resistance

Host: 26:51
Her Circle doesn’t just support women — you challenge systems that oppress them. What’s been the biggest challenge in shifting attitudes or policies?

Amy: 27:03
Culture. The culture of the organisation or institution you’re dealing with.

We have great allies in Newcastle and Gateshead — particularly in leadership — and that sets a tone that helps services follow suit. But we’ve also experienced closed doors — especially from senior leaders or legal teams in some places.

In one case, we raised concerns about genuinely poor practice. The response was: “We think you’re a bad influence on mum’s relationship with us, so we’re excluding you from future meetings.” They did. That woman is still flailing, terrified about losing her child, and there’s very little we can do because legally they can choose not to work with us.

Other services have told us: you have to be subordinate, you can’t challenge them, because they have so much power they’ll override you. We understand that now — but we can’t accept that model. We’ll look at partnership agreements and expected behaviour, but we won’t abandon women.

9) Anonymous access and safe spaces

Host: 30:31
How does Her Circle create safe spaces so women feel able to reach out without fear?

Amy: 30:56
We are for the woman — for her health. We believe the best route to keep women and children together is supporting women to heal.

If she’s experiencing domestic abuse, we support her recovery and safety. If she has substance misuse issues, we support community-based recovery and protective relationships. We don’t require women to give their name or postcode. We don’t feed into care team meetings. We don’t write reports for court. We want her to be able to heal and be honest — because honesty can be used against women elsewhere.

For me, I sought help 18 months before my children were removed. I told mental health services I was unraveling — over-exercising, barely eating, drinking heavily on nights the children weren’t home. The focus quickly shifted to: “You have children — are you drinking when you have them?” I said no. A report went to social services. A social worker visited and didn’t open a formal assessment, but after that I didn’t feel I could trust services. I stopped asking for help. I relied on my own coping strategies for 18 months, then had a breakdown. When the breakdown happened, that earlier report contributed to risk assumptions — and removal followed. That earlier moment could have been an opportunity for safe mental health support that prevented what happened later.

That’s why women can access Her Circle anonymously.

10) What trauma-informed support should look like

Host: 34:43
What would a truly supportive or trauma-informed system look like for mothers at risk of child removal?

Amy: 35:00
I wish I could have met mums like me back then. I wish I could have walked into a room of women who looked like they “had life together” — jobs, articulate, bright — who had also experienced breakdown, vulnerability, and recovery. Seeing life as possible would have changed my path.

When I lost my children, I engaged in everything to heal. I learned about mental health and protective factors. I joined a 12-step fellowship for alcohol — because by then I was a full-blown alcoholic. I haven’t drank in seven and a half years. That journey could have started 18 months earlier, and the children needn’t have been removed. The damage to me, the children, and the wider family needn’t have happened.

We want women who walk into Her Circle to walk into a room of amazing women living well, who once weren’t — who can show them the way.

11) Vision for the next five years

Host: 36:38
What’s your vision for Her Circle over the next five years?

Amy: 36:44
We’ll remain within the three pillars and grow according to women’s needs.

I’m committed to Her Circle staying local — not in the sense of “never elsewhere”, but that any growth must be homegrown in the way it has been in Newcastle. That might mean expanding across nearby areas, and potentially further — and we are being approached by commissioners because people can see the value.

In research and systems change, the path will depend on what becomes possible. I sincerely hope that the problems we’re tackling now will be resolved in ten years — and that the problems we’re addressing then will be different. If I’m still fighting for the exact same issues in ten years, I’ll consider myself a failure.

12) Message to women listening

Host: 38:09
For women listening who may be going through these challenges, what message would you like to share?

Amy: 38:16
Please get in touch. You’re not alone — absolutely not alone. So many women have experienced this, and many do recover and find a different way of being. Knowing I wasn’t alone transformed my life. I hope women listening hear that they have allies here.

13) How people can support

Host: 38:38
For listeners who want to support your work, what’s the best way to get involved?

Amy: 38:46
It depends what they want to do. If people want to donate, please get in touch. Our website is: www.hercirclene.co.uk
— and there’s a contact page with our email addresses.

We get emails from women who want to work at Her Circle and volunteer — sometimes with extraordinary CVs — because it means so much to be near women who understand.

Whether you want to support through research, projects, giving time, or giving money — please reach out.

Host: 39:30
Your website and contact details will be in the show notes. Thank you. That’s all my questions for today — thank you for joining me.