Rebel Justice
What is justice? Who does it serve? Why should you care?
When we think about justice, we think about it as an abstract, something that happens to someone else, somewhere else. But justice and the law regulate every aspect of our interactions with each other, with organisations, and with the government.
We never think about it until it impacts our lives, or that of someone close.
Our guests are women with lived experience of the justice system whether as victims or women who have committed crimes; or people at the forefront of civic action who put their lives on the line to demand a better world..
We ask them to share their insight into how we might repair a broken and harmful system, with humanity and dignity.
We also speak with people who are in the heart of the justice system creating important change; climate activists, judges, barristers, human rights campaigners, mental health advocates, artists and healers.
Rebel Justice
94. Dr. Sarah Benn and the Climate Health Emergency: When Medicine Meets Activism
In this week's episode, we talk to Dr Sarah Benn, a GP who moved from decades of practice to non‑violent climate action. How did Dr Sarah go from sitting outside an oil terminal with a small placard, to ending up behind bars?
Dr Sarah explains why civil resistance, done non‑violently, can be a legitimate public health intervention when petitions and policy promises fail. We talk candidly about prison: the loss of agency, the small humiliations that reveal how power works, and how a month inside sharpened her sense of justice. Then we unpack the GMC tribunal that suspended her for breaching an injunction, the logic that “doctors must uphold the law,” and why she believes public trust is better served by doctors who act to prevent mass harm than by regulators who punish conscience.
Throughout, we connect climate change to everyday health: heatwaves and floods, air pollution driving heart and lung disease, vector‑borne infections moving north, fragile food systems, and the mental health toll of grief and anxiety. Sarah lays out what healthcare can do now—prepare for heat and air quality events, plan for migration and disruption, and speak plainly about risk. For listeners, she offers a practical ladder of action: diet shifts, travel choices, ethical banking, political pressure, local water and air campaigns, and routes into activism that don’t require breaking the law.
Credits
Guest: Dr Sarah Benn
Producer: Charlotte Janes
Soundtrack: Particles (Revo Main Version) by [Coma-Media]
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You're listening to Rebel Justice, the podcast from The View magazine. When we think about justice, we think about it as an abstract. Something that happens to someone else, somewhere else. But justice and the law regulate every aspect of our interactions with each other, with organizations, and with the government. We never think about it until it impacts our lives or those of someone close. Our guests are women with lived experience of the justice system. Whether it's victims or women who have committed crimes, people at the forefront of civic action who put their lives on the line to demand a better world. We ask them to share their insight into how we might prepare a broken and harmful system for humanity and dignity. We also speak with people who are in the heart of the justice system, creating important change. Judges, barristers, human rights campaigners, mental health advocates, artists and healers. Today's guest is Dr. Sarah Ben. Dr. Sarah is a climate activist and dedicated her life to helping others through her work as a GP. She's also one of the growing number of healthcare professionals taking a stand for the planet. Sarah made headlines for her peaceful protest work with Extinction Rebellion and Doctors for Extinction Rebellion, highlighting the urgent connection between planetary health and human health. Her courage and commitment led her to face suspension and even imprisonment, a rare and powerful example of what it means to truly act on your values. In this conversation, we talk about what moved her to take that step, how it's changed her life and work, and why protecting the planet is ultimately about protecting each other. Dr Ben, you worked at the GP for over 30 years. Could you start by telling us a little bit about your career in medicine and what motivated you to become a doctor?
Dr Sarah:I suppose I never really had a strong vocation to go into medicine, but fell into it because I liked science and uh was attracted to the idea of doing a degree that then led to something useful. Having said that, my mother was a GP and she was like old style, it's all she ever wanted to do. Um, having found myself in medicine, I really did enjoy it and particularly enjoyed the sort of problem-solving aspects of it, but also as a GP, watching people's lives unfold, all the sort of interaction between their sort of physical medical problems and the world around. And I found myself practicing in an inner city area in Birmingham, again, rather by chance, having really no idea about anything to do with social justice, sort of gradually over the years assimilated some some of that because of the people that I were working with who are living in difficult social conditions, a lot of uh asylum seekers, refugees, people who'd had really awful challenges in their life, people with drug and alcohol problems, social problems, and so on. So um yeah, I think it's very much become part of my identity being a doctor, um, and I can't really think of myself as not being one anymore.
Host:And at what point did environmental concerns become central in your life and how did they develop alongside your medical career?
Dr Sarah:I think I've always had, well, since since childhood, um, a discomfort and anxiety about how humans treat the the natural world. I remember being quite distressed at the site the first time I I saw a tip. Um and my dad was a a builder and um we went to the tip and saw everything that's just thrown away. Um, and I was quite appalled by that because I thought, well, if everybody's throwing all that away, I mean this was decades ago, you know, this was back in the 70s. Where does it all go? What happens, you know, um litter as well, things like that, and seeing seeing the terrible things that happen to animals as a result of human behaviour has always troubled me. Um, but without really having any idea what to do about it, other than sort of support some charities that were doing stuff. Um, over the years that became more um centred around climate. I can't remember exactly when I first came across the concept of global heating and the climate crisis, but certainly there was a moment in 2006 when I was pregnant with my youngest child, who's now just gone off to university, and me and my husband went to see the film An Inconvenient Truth, which Al Gore had made, and it was a really hot summer's evening, and we came out in the sweltering heat and thought, oh my goodness, this is really horrendous, it's worse than we ever thought. And this was like 2006, you know, what what can be done? We however just got on with our lives busy, you know, raising children and so on. Um, but the the worry, the anxiety has just mounted over the years, and and I I often reflect if I'd seen that film six months earlier than I had, my my youngest son wouldn't be here. I never really thought though that there was much I personally could do about it other than progressively changing my lifestyle, and and I have made lots and lots of changes in my life to do with you know changing my diet, um, the way I travel, uh what I buy or don't buy, and stuff in my home, all these things. And the usual stuff that people do, you know, signing petitions, uh contacting my MP, um, and again supporting charities that were working uh to try and change things. I never really, and I don't know quite why, but it never really occurred to me to do anything more than that until I came across Extinction Rebellion in 2019. And again, that was a real um wake-up moment when I thought, oh my goodness, you know, uh non-violent direct action to drive change that needs to happen. It's worked historically, you know, it worked for the suffragettes, it worked for the American civil rights movement. Why am I not doing this? And that led me into rolling up my sleeves and actually doing something useful myself.
Host:Thank you. So, as you mentioned, I think many people feel that these small life changes, going vegan or at least considerably reducing your meat consumption, recycling, all the kind of things that people think might help that perhaps aren't making the difference that we quite need. Can you share why you believe lawful process isn't enough?
Dr Sarah:Um, first of all, I think the individual changes are essential. Um, and partly undertook them through a desire not to be seen as a hypocrite, but I I've also felt, you know, I went vegan in 2019. Um, that's led me into all sorts of stuff around diet for for health as well. Stopping flying, um, stopping buying stuff that we don't need. These are all things that the vast majority of people can do. And if everybody did them, you know, it would make a great difference. But I do recognise that it's it's very difficult for some people to know where to begin and and simply to have the bandwidth to even consider these issues and take individual actions when they're really just trying to get food on the table and and survive. But yes, I think that everybody who who can do something should be doing something at an individual level, but it isn't it isn't enough. So, yes, non-violent direct action um has a has a good historical record in terms of driving change. I have no desire whatsoever to break the law, and I have not broken the law for the sake of it. It's that taking disruptive action, it doesn't necessarily, but it quite often leads one into conflict with the law and legal consequences because it's only by disrupting systems that are very powerful that sufficient awareness and pressure is brought to the to the table and something gives, something changes. And there's been decades of people marching, signing petitions, demonstrating, writing to their MP, giving talks, making documentaries, etc. etc. And nothing has changed with the urgency that's required. That's the critical thing. It is really, really urgent. We haven't got decades to be making the changes that need to happen. And there's a lot of hot air about, you know, oh, we're world leaders in this, we're greening the economy, we're this, that, and the other. And it's really dishonest because that sort of stuff needed to be happening 30 years ago, and now we're in the situation where much, much bolder action needs to be taken, and nobody wants to talk about it. So disruption, always non-violent. You know, that that for me is a is a red line, it has to be non-violent, but it it is a very powerful tool, but it does not always, but it it has the potential to to break the law and consequences follow. But again, that that in itself is very powerful because it involves some sacrifice on the part of people doing that. And people are interested, they wake up to it, they think, you know, what why is this sort of person who is otherwise a conventional good citizen who spent years, you know, working in the NHS, whatever, who's really generally quite a conformist rule follower? Uh, what on earth was she doing? You know, why did she think feel so strongly that she ended up in prison? What what's going on here? And that's how conversations start and continue. Thank you.
Host:So you were first arrested in 2019 through Extinction Rebellion Actions and later with just off while how did serving time in prison shape your view of the justice system?
Dr Sarah:Um yeah, it was a very interesting life experience. I had I had prepared myself. I'd done some reading around it because I thought it was likely to happen. Um, but I think nothing prepares you for the absolute dismantlement of your one's agency as an individual. The the disempowerment um was really difficult and I was only in for a month in prison. Um I found it quite challenging to suddenly be in a position where I had very, very reasonable requests that I was making in a very reasonable manner, such as when our um the sink in my shared cell uh blocked. This is the sink in which we're supposed to wash our hands, wash our underwear. Um, this kind of thing was blocked for three days and nobody was coming to fix it. Um, when a smoke alarm outside my cell was going off continuously all night, so that neither me nor my cellmate who was appearing in court the next day could sleep, and that happened two, three nights on the trot. And we were making perfectly polite, calm requests to get this problem sorted, and nothing happened. We just told this is prison. Um that that was quite a shock to me, and I suppose I should have expected it. Um I found that very difficult and I I can only think how well I can't imagine how ghastly it must be to try and navigate that without knowing that you're going to be home in a fairly short period of time without knowing how to actually um you know make make an effective complaint or or even try to. So yeah, that that was quite a learning experience for me. I also learned a little bit, you know, about myself and my my difficulty in being confined. I I uh that that was another very difficult experience for me, just just being in a cell sort of 23 hours a day, not able to walk in a straight line for more than 20 metres when I came out, you know, in a sort of exercise area. I found that very difficult because you don't know what you miss until it's gone.
Host:You reported all of your rests and convictions to the GMC yourself.
unknown:Yes.
Host:What was your expectation of how the regulator would respond?
Dr Sarah:Um I I really didn't know what they would make of it. Um on one level, I sort of thought, well, I'll be struck off straight away, because we all as doctors, you kind of live in the fear of the GMC from the very start of your career, and generally that takes the shape of thinking, oh god, what if I make a bad mistake, you know, and I'm done for negligence and struck off for that. And um, you you don't tend to think about things that you might do deliberately that would be looked at by the GMC. And I certainly, you know, mostly things that people do outside their professional life, which outside their work, which lead them into trouble with the GMC, are things like um you know sexual misconduct, uh, fraud, uh, violent behaviour, this kind of thing. So I I never expected that I would be voluntarily doing something that that they would take issue with. So part of me thought, well, that's it, you know, I'm I'm gonna be struck off. And and I was quite surprised when it first of all, it took so long, it took several years for them to actually do anything. But by then I was thinking more, well, this is you know, they I I've got some really good arguments here about why I did this. It's a public health intervention, really, and the GMC, once you know, when I explain it, then you know, somebody might listen and understand and say, hmm, okay, this is this hasn't happened before, because uh my case was the first of a doctor being um censured by the GMC for taking non-violent action for a sort of moral ethical reason. It hadn't happened before. So I I I thought, you know, well, I've got a good argument here. So they did listen, though, or the the tribunal to whom the GMC referred me, um, they listened very politely and I was able to have my say, but all of my arguments were dismissed, really, with the very basic counter-argument from them that doctors must uphold the law. It's a fundamental tenet of the medical profession. It doesn't matter why you've broken the law at all. The public will lose trust in the profession if doctors break the law. Therefore, and if we take no action, public trust in the profession and the regulatory body will be undermined. Therefore, we have to take action. And there's kind of no getting away from that. It went round and round in circles, but came back to that. And their position was: well, we totally accept that you've had a blameless clinical career, you've worked hard for the NHS, no concerns with your um clinical work, and you're quite at liberty to protest and speak out about the climate, uh, but you mustn't break the law because you're a doctor. Um, so uh I think over the last few years I've I've more and more felt like I'm banging my head against a brick wall, and that nobody's really listening, because as far as I can see, the GMC have a duty actually, if they want to protect public trust in the profession. What's public trust in the profession and the GMC going to be like in a few years' time when people find out that they just stood by and did nothing other than to censure people like me who were trying to do something very necessary? Sorry, that's a bit of a long and rambling.
Host:No, no, I completely agree. As you said, your reasoning, many people would say that doctors are natural advocates for health. How do you see the climate emergency as a health emergency?
Dr Sarah:It absolutely is. The climate emergency is a public health emergency. The ways that climate collapse can impact on health are very numerous. So so even just looking at extreme weather events that we've already experienced, um deaths occurring in heat waves and floods, and of course, these are always much, much more in the global south, in countries that are really at the sharp end of climate change. But people are so shocked when it happens, you know, when people were dying last year in flooded garages in Spain because of rapidly rising flood waters. Um, so so death from extreme weather events, but also the sort of chronic uh chronic effects on health from air pollution, from the stress on vulnerable uh individuals of heat, so the elderly, children, people with pre-existing health conditions. There's spread of diseases into new areas because they're carried by vectors of disease. We're seeing malaria spreading northwards through Europe and other previously tropical diseases effect on food systems. We've seen big issues with, for example, potato crops in the UK, but worldwide impact of drought and extreme heat and then extreme rainfall on grain crops, which have caused locally, you know, malnutrition, famine, and it's not very far in the future before we will suddenly become impacted by that in the UK. And when we start to see empty supermarket shelves, you know, properly empty, then social unrest follows and violence and collapse. And that's what really frightens me is the prospect of societal collapse because that is what starts to happen when there's no food, no water, no safe place for people to go, people are on the move. It's likely it's been predicted that by 2050 we'll have 1.2 billion climate refugees, 1.2 billion people on the move. You know, people are worried about at the moment, there's a lot of people in the UK worried about the numbers of people coming in to the country. That is just a drop in the ocean as to what will be happening in the very near future as people all over the world are on the move trying to find somewhere safe to live, and all of the problems that follow from that. So, yes, it's it's absolutely the climate emergency is a health emergency.
Host:What you said there really resonated because I think from what I see, a lot of the political leaders also share that same opinion on refugees, so it's interesting that they're global warming deniers. So, given your very fair reasoning, do you think the GMC has misunderstood the role of doctors as advocates for public health when it comes to climate?
Dr Sarah:Yes, absolutely. Um they they had a golden opportunity with my case and that of uh a couple of other doctors um who similarly are in have been sanctioned or are in the process of this, they had a golden opportunity to say, yes, these doctors have broken the law, but the reason that they have is because of the climate emergency, and therefore we are going to alter the way we deal with them. These are exceptional circumstances. The climate emergency is an exceptional circumstance, therefore, we have to rethink what we do, and that would have been incredibly powerful, and I think the general public would have understood had they explained it. I don't think the general public would want to see somebody like me suspended for what I did. I was suspended because I sat with a placard that said stop new oil outside an oil terminal. And people can't get their heads around that. What was so bad about that? What was so bad was because it broke a high court injunction against protest at that oil terminal. I wasn't even on their property, I was on a on a grass verge outside, and people don't I I didn't really understand what injunctions were until 2022. Um and it's I think the general public, you know, should be credited with some intelligence and judgment to say that doing that is very, very different from manipulating and grooming a patient to have a sexual relationship or possessing images of child pornography or working while intoxicated. I think it could have been explained, and they didn't have to do what they did, they didn't have to suspend me. Um and it it it would have been, as I say, an opportunity for them to say, okay, our processes weren't set up for this, um, but now the matter's been raised. Yeah, there is a climate emergency, our governments, our leaders are not doing enough, we're not doing enough, what can we do? And and the GMC, for example, have a net zero plan, but it's full of it, only actually appeared, printed out or appeared uh a month or so before my tribunal, but it is there, and it features things like reusable coffee cups um and motion-sensitive lighting, and having less meat on the cafe menu, um, and encouraging people working from home, which is all brilliant, uh you know, it's all good stuff, but it's just so pathetically inadequate in the face of the problem that we face. And if if we had, you know, 20, 30, even 10 years to be trying to sort this out in a way that didn't involve big changes and challenges, I would be full tilt helping with that side of things, you know, the greening of the NHS. But we're not in that situation. Uh we've got no time left. And they're twiddling their thumbs and talking about points of procedure and when they should be leading.
Host:Absolutely. Do you think that your suspension has had a chilling effect on other healthcare professionals who might have been considering protest?
Dr Sarah:Um, I'm sure that some people will have been put off. Um I think the majority of people we're quite a conservative small C lot doctors. Um in order to get into the profession, you you have to be a little bit sort of uh conformist. And so I think I think by nature we are less likely as a demographic group to be doing that kind of thing. And we do worry a lot about getting into trouble. Um, we worry a lot about making mistakes because mistakes can really impact, clinical mistakes can really impact on the health and life of somebody else, and none of us want that. So we're all very, I think throughout our careers, we worry about that a lot, and we also worry about getting into trouble, um, doing you know something that um accidentally leads us to be uh you know come down on by our regulators. So I think the the the number of people considering doing something that might have legal consequences in the medical profession is quite small to begin with. And and that's a shame because I think we do have a very powerful voice, and if if more people did get involved, and there are, you know, that there is a a good number of doctors involved in uh health extinction rebellion and other sort of things like just up oil, um, but it's a tiny, tiny proportion, and I think amongst the rest of the profession, there's also um I I've had a lot of support from colleagues, but there is a reticence for people to speak out publicly and say, well, this is necessary, this is reasonable to uh break the law or to uh do not not the purpose not being, as I say, to break the law, but it's reasonable to do things to try and get what needs to happen happening. It's reasonable to do that, even if it breaks the law. People are very worried about saying the wrong thing, getting into trouble and so on. So yeah, I I'm I'm sure it's had, as you say, a a a chilling effect on others who might have thought they would do that type of thing. And definitely, you know, young young doctors. Uh I was at the sort of end of my um my working career. I'm in a very lucky position where I'm financially secure and it it didn't impact on me in a way that it would for somebody, you know, leaving medical school with lots of debt, just starting out in their career. I I I can quite see why it would be almost impossible for somebody like that to to take action unless they were prepared to just uh completely risk the loss of their career.
Host:Thank you. I think uh what you mentioned about I mean in society myself, not a doctor. Doctors are exceptionally respected, revered. So looking forward, uh what role do you think the medical profession should play in climate crisis?
Dr Sarah:I think we should be uh speaking out at every opportunity to uh help people join the dots between the climate crisis and uh their own personal health and well being and that of their children. We should be uh speaking out on every possible occasion about it. Or we should be pressuring our institutions like The GMC to step up and do something. We also have to, as a workforce, consider how we are going to mitigate the effects of the climate crisis, meaning dealing with the extra illness that is going to be caused and is already being caused by extremes of heat, by infectious disease, and also the knock-on difficulties as things unravel. There's a massive problem, public health problem with mental health, which I think most people are aware of. And that is going to get worse and worse and worse as more people become aware of the inevitability, really significant impact of the climate crisis on them, if they have more than a 10-year life expectancy, and their children. It's going to impact on all of us. And the realization that whatever we do now, it's too late to avoid that. It's only going to get worse. And the people who are going to be most impacted that we know are our children and future generations. And that is going to lead to the most appalling grief, ongoing anxiety, depression, and we have to work out ways of dealing with that as well as the physical disease that is going to be caused.
Host:Thank you. And then taking us right back to the start, you mentioned as a child your first kind of realizations of climate issues and where to begin. For listeners who may feel that same urgency but don't know how to act, what would you suggest as some achievable or also important goals that they can look to to help in the climate crisis?
Dr Sarah:So there's some simple or low or no cost things that anybody can do at an individual level. So changing, moving towards a plant-based diet, or um, avoiding flying, stopping buying stuff that we don't need. So, you know, it it's not all about recycling, buying less to begin with, banking with the best bank you can from an ethical point of view. Triodos bank costs three pounds a month, which many people can afford, and a perfectly good banking uh setup, talking about it, even if you don't know the solutions. And actually, I think the most important thing for most people is to actually get out of your comfort zone and invest a few hours in not so much seeking solutions, but becoming uh getting an understanding of where we're actually at and the real significance and urgency of the climate crisis. And that is really, really uncomfortable, especially if you're already worried about the state of the world. But it's it's really an essential precursor to understand it. Then there are things that individuals can do at uh sort of a little bit more cost, depending on on how much you want to do. I mean, there's things like you know, home insulation, solar panels, um, getting a heat pump, but obviously these things cost, so I'm I'm kind of putting that in brackets. Um there's the sort of political pressure type things, voting for the climate as opposed to personal interest. The the political scene at the moment is just so is just so chaotic. I have voted Green Party for many years now because it is the sole most important thing. Talking to your MP, writing to them, going and actually seeing them, it feels like it doesn't do any good, but if everybody did it, it would. Same with signing petitions and so on. Uh, giving, if you're in a position to giving some serious money to organisations that are actually trying to do something. So uh Greenpeace, Friends of the Earth, um, Survival International, who are uh helping people, indigenous people safeguard the environment, using your money in that way. And then we come to you know activism, which which doesn't have to break the law either. There are lots and lots of people involved in really eye-catching stuff that doesn't put them at risk of legal consequences. There's lots of local stuff going on around water pollution, rivers. Different people have different particular concerns, and a little bit of digging will uncover something in anyone's locality that they can help with get active, and talking to other people who are similarly concerned leads you into networks of people that communities that actually can get things done. So that's a big long list of things that you know anyone can uh uh pick off what suits them at their particular their particular situation because some people you know financially are not in a position to go and buy expensive things, but they might have more time on their hands. Other people have no time at all, but they could think about where they put their money, what they use their money on, and send some of that money to supporting others who are able to do stuff, but also avoiding spending that money on things that really desecrate the planet.
Host:If today's episode left you inspired, there are so many ways to take meaningful action for the climate, whether that's joining a local community group, reducing your own carbon footprint, supporting campaigns that push for systemic change, or any of the ways that you can help that Dr. Sarah listed, or get involved with movements like Friends of the Earth, Climate Outreach, or Greenpeace. As Dr. Sarah said, even small steps matter. Talking about climate change with friends and family, divesting from fossil fuels or volunteering your time can make a real difference. As Dr Sarah Ben reminds us, caring for the planet is a form of care for our patients, our communities, and our shared future. You've been listening to Rebel Justice. If you'd like to support our work and receive four digital editions and one print issue a year, subscribe to the View for just £20. Make sure to follow us on our social media. We're on Instagram at the_view_ magazines. And you can also find us on LinkedIn, X, and TikTok. If you'd like to reach out to us directly, you can email inquiries to us at press at theview magazine.org. Please share this story.