Rebel Justice
What is justice? Who does it serve? Why should you care?
When we think about justice, we think about it as an abstract, something that happens to someone else, somewhere else. But justice and the law regulate every aspect of our interactions with each other, with organisations, and with the government.
We never think about it until it impacts our lives, or that of someone close.
Our guests are women with lived experience of the justice system whether as victims or women who have committed crimes; or people at the forefront of civic action who put their lives on the line to demand a better world..
We ask them to share their insight into how we might repair a broken and harmful system, with humanity and dignity.
We also speak with people who are in the heart of the justice system creating important change; climate activists, judges, barristers, human rights campaigners, mental health advocates, artists and healers.
Rebel Justice
93. The Fight to End FGM Part 2: First Global Report on FGM with The Vavengers CEO Sema Gornall, Sir Max Hill KC and Activist Mam Lisa Camara
In part two of our series with The Vavengers, Rebel Justice is joined by Sir Max Hill KC, former Director of Public Prosecutions for England and Wales, alongside The Vavengers’ CEO, Sema Gornall and activist Mam Lisa Camara
Together, they unpack the legal, political, and global dimensions of the fight to end female genital mutilation (FGM); and the creation of the world’s first comprehensive global dataset on FGM, unveiled at the 80th UN General Assembly.
Max Hill shares insights from his time leading the Crown Prosecution Service, the landmark prosecutions that shifted UK legal history, and how international collaboration with King & Spalding and WilmerHale is reshaping what justice and accountability can look like for survivors worldwide.
Lisa and Sema discuss the power of survivor-led activism, the importance of culturally grounded approaches, and the global partnerships needed to ensure this data drives real change — from law reform and funding models to local empowerment and protection for girls at risk.
This conversation exposes the gaps between law and lived reality, highlights the urgent need for survivor-centred justice, and calls for every country to act on the evidence now laid bare.
Useful Links
https://thevavengers.co.uk/global-landscape-report
https://awra-group.org/en/
https://www.dahliaproject.org/
Credits
Guests: Sema Gornall, Mam Lisa Camara & Sir Max Hill KC
Producers: Charlotte Janes & Nico Rivosecchi
Soundtrack: Particles (Revo Main Version) by [Coma-Media]
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You're listening to Rebel Justice, the podcast from The View magazine. When we think about justice, we think about it as an abstract, something that happens to someone else, somewhere else. But justice and the law regulate every aspect of our interactions with each other, with organizations, and with the government. We never think about it until it impacts our lives or those of someone close. Our guests are women with lived experience of the justice system, whether as victims or women who have committed crimes. People at the forefront of civic action, who put their lives on the line to demand a better world. We ask them to share their insight into how we might repair a broken and harmful system with humanity and dignity. We also speak with people who are in the heart of the justice system, creating important change. Judges, barristers, human rights campaigners, mental health advocates, artists and healers. Welcome back to part two of our interview with Semma Gornall, CEO of the Revengers, and Lisa Kamara, activist and female representative and vice chairperson of the Gambia National Youth Council. We are also joined today by Sir Max Hill, KC. Max is one of the UK's preeminent barristers, having been lead counsel on many of the country's most high-profile cases, and also spending five years as the Director of Public Prosecutions, the most senior non-political public prosecutor in England and Wales. Currently, Max is the senior counsel and policy advisor for King and Spaulding. King and Spaulding have partnered with the Revengers to create the first global data set on FGM. Max is also a patron for the Revengers. Could you start off by sharing how this collaboration between the Revengers and King and Spaulding came about?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, sure. I mean I think the relevant background here is that the UK Parliament, like many other parliaments around the world, recognises FGM as criminal and gives the authorities, including the courts, the power to impose many years' imprisonment for FGM. It's important to remember. But also it's come in slow incremental steps in terms of the legal system. So until 2003, FGM was described as female circumcision from an Act of Parliament in the 1980s. And you, as you've heard from Temer and Lisa, this is not circumcision. It's so much more, so much worse than that. But since 2003, the law has been in place. My previous role as Director of Public Prosecutions for England and Wales and head of the Crown Prosecution Service happened, I'm very pleased to say, to overlap with the first successful prosecutions for FGM that we'd ever had in this country. The first was in 2019 and the second in 2023. So some steps have been taken to put the law into effect. Though again, I think as you've heard from SEMA, this is a slow process. And there are still a number of question marks about the knowledge base that the authorities have, investigators and prosecutors, and having the means to bring the right cases before the courts. Lisa and Semmer are two of them, but there are many more like them, really deserve to be heard across a more global audience. And that's why together we came up with a plan to do something that has never been done before. FGM has been scrutinized in the past, and authoritative global organizations such as UNICEF have looked at FGM and the incidence of FGM in some countries, but nobody had mapped the data, the information on how this is happening, what laws are in place to prevent it, and what healthcare provision there is for survivors. And so the law firm I work for now, King and Spaulding, together with Wilma Hale, two US global law firms, both with offices in London, came together to do that data mapping and to come up with a report which we hope and believe is comprehensive. Whichever country in the world you come from, you can go to the relevant pages in our report, it's over 600 pages, and find the information you need to create a picture of what's happening in that country. And that is just as relevant in Gambia where Lisa comes from as it is in England and Wales where we're sitting now.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. So from a legal perspective, what stood out to you in the report about the gaps or disparities facing survivors between the different countries?
SPEAKER_01:What I would say is that in a sense the tide has turned because in so many of the countries we looked at, the first answer given was that FGM is illegal. But that means nothing if it's just a law that is sitting on a dusty shelf and it isn't being used. And we also found that in so many countries there may be a belief from people at the top, as it were, that FGM is illegal and therefore it's a problem solved. But our research indicates that in many, many countries around the globe, 100% or approaching 100% of young girls and young women are still being cut, even in countries where it's illegal. And coming back home, as it were, to England and to London, where there's a very broad diaspora community, we know through the Avengers that there are hundreds and thousands of women who have come here having been cut, as young girls elsewhere, or having been born here, are then taken back to the country of origin for their family, and that is where the cutting occurs. So in order to create more action around this, we thought that we needed a really comprehensive data set to go beneath the headlines and to demonstrate in countries who may claim that they don't have a problem that they certainly do, and they should be doing more about it. And that is true in Europe and in England, just as much as it's true in large parts of Indonesia and Africa and elsewhere around the world.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. So, from a legal perspective, what stood out to you in the report about the gaps or disparities facing survivors between the different countries?
SPEAKER_01:I think the first thing I'd say is no country is getting it right. There is no single country that we can point to through the data that would suggest they are the model answer for how to intervene against FGM and provide comprehensive support, which includes physical and mental support for survivors. So if no country is getting it all right, that means that there are variations, wide variations across the globe, are circumstances where, starting with the law, sometimes there is no specific FGM legislation, and instead the authorities rely on general crimes of violence or offenses of violence. Now, coming from a jurisdiction where FGM is specifically criminalized, I would say there's something to be done there. In terms of healthcare provision, there is general health care provision for women, just as there is for men in almost every country, but it is insufficiently targeted on this very significant minority, and in many countries a significant majority of women who, let me say, are at the moment effectively barred from the workplace because of the disability and the pain that they're suffering, as others have described. So surely a lot more has to be done to realize the potential of women who are 50% or more of the population of countries that we're talking about, and yet they're suffering from a lack of care, a lack of support, and that in many cases they aren't even able to enter, gain full employment. So I think looking at it in any of those various ways, there's a great deal to be done. There are countries we can point to where more, not less is being done, but I don't think any country, and I'm specifically including England here, can say that they have got this problem absolutely sorted out and there's nothing to see here.
SPEAKER_00:We often hear about FGM as a cultural or medical issue, but it's also a legal and human rights issue. Max, could you explain why it's so important to bring legal expertise into this fight?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I'm going to give um an answer as a lawyer here. Um what seems to me obvious uh is that um a campaigning organization like the The Vengers need the biggest voice possible globally in partnership with associated organizations such as the one that Lisa runs. Um in order to do something that sounds very simple but takes a great effort, and that is to give confidence to survivors that in their country they can come forward, they will be supported, and a number of things will flow from that. I've talked about mental health care, physical health care, but in terms of intervening against these serious crimes, it requires confidence and support for victims, our survivors, to be able to come forward in order to provide the evidence that investigators and prosecutors need. And that actually is the biggest problem here. I think one of the reasons why there have been only to date three successful prosecutions in England and Wales is that it's very difficult to gather the evidence of this crime. And that links to something that Semmer often mentions and has done on this recording, and that is trying to get to the origin of the criminality. In this country until last year, the prosecutions that were brought, where there was sufficient evidence, were successfully brought against women who were either arranging to do or themselves were doing the cutting. But as we know, it is the men behind the women who are facilitating, or I would say ordering the cutting. And until you engage with that and ensure that there are sufficient prosecutions against those men, then I think this phenomenon, this global gender-based violence at its worst form, will not be gripped. So that is where evidence uh is needed. And that involves quite sensitive work around investigators being empowered, being given far greater knowledge of how this happens, and then to set an investigative strategy that goes not to the first person in the evidential chain, but to the very end of that chain, because unless you get to that point, you won't actually stop FGM. And in its way, our hope is that the global data report will help everyone to wake up to this and will allow work to be conducted in every country around the globe, which can only be a good thing for those countries and good for women globally, to ensure that this very serious form of sexual abuse, and I would even call it child abuse, is eradicated.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. So, based on what Max said about using the results from this data set, SEMA, how do you see survivors and activists using this report as a tool for advocacy?
SPEAKER_02:I mean, we will certainly divide this by region with our partners. Um, so you know, for example, in Africa, we know African women's rights advocates do great work. So they're our major partner to highlight this report at the UN General Assembly parallel events. But when we finish the launch, what we will do then is build partnerships with around 30 organizations we are talking to right now across the globe, who cover various regions Canada, America, Europe, Africa, Asia, and other regions, to basically go away in their own regions and the grassroots women who are fighting this basically, to say, okay, this is the knowledge we have. They can go to their donors, you know, they can go to new donors, they can go to corporations. And what we are hoping, I think, in terms of finances, is to be able to localize the funding. That's one of our movements, because we don't actually believe, you know, Western model of funding is working. You know, at some point it breaks. And what we want to achieve is, you know, corporations on the grounds to look after the regions and kind of like hear the you know, grassroots people's messaging with all this great information, as well as you know, the overseas global funding. So that should be an addition, but not the sole reason, you know, we we do charity work in a region, for example, because that just hasn't worked. And another one is legally, we want people who are fighting FGM to feel protected and safe. So that's why we will actually build um a committee of legal firms that we have worked with. I mean, the Avengers, we were very lucky to work with, I would say, over 20 law firms, you know, through the years. I always say this at any time there's 20 lawyers working for us doing something in the city of London and you know, globally. So we want to extend that you know support line that we have to other charities, or even not charities, you know, this the sole woman who's standing in Kenya fighting, you know, FGM in a village, she should have the same legal protection. So we want to introduce law firms to you know um activists. And then you know, they have that level of power that we have to do what they want to do, whether it's prosecution. Often what we hear from you know regions like Africa or Middle East is there are girl children who escape um after or before FGM, and you know, there's no legal support because the local community, the policing community doesn't know how to handle that because you know often it's silenced and that hasn't happened before. So there were some children reported to us who actually were put in jail because there was no safe house for them. So I guess for corporations to hear these and actually like reach every region they sell their products in, because there are the people who are buying their business products and you know they should look after them in return. That's the idea that we have behind this, but also for law firms to give that legal support. So if there is a prosecution, you should have an amazing law firm defending that one girl child somewhere out in the world. And I have to say, every 12 minutes, a woman or a girl dies because of injuries sustained by FGM. So this is a very deadly and serious issue. It's a very serious violence against women and girls, and we have to stop it. And it's not, I don't do it, so it's not my business. No. Whoever you are, you have a role to end FGM. You can't just sit comfortably watch this happen. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00:I completely agree. So, Lisa, Sema mentioned corporations and legal groups working with those on the ground. But what do you wish global partners understood about the realities on the ground in Gambian communities, especially around enforcement challenges?
SPEAKER_03:Thank you. I think global partners have been supporting work on the ground, you know, for decades. But then the misconceptions is Africa is treated as a country, not a continent. There's no one size fit-all when it comes to fighting FGM and GBV in general, because it is practiced for different reasons in different countries. If you come to Gambia, for example, and speak to people about FGM or GBV in general, the reasons that they give you are religious, cultural, or traditional. Whereas it's different in Kenya and other countries. A child in Gambia I would say sometimes is more at a higher level because uh we are caught when we are babies. So a Gambian child is caught from one week old, let's say, to five years old when we are unable to defend ourselves or even get away. Whereas in Kenya, it's the teenagers 12, 13, 14, and sometimes they're able to run away to a shelter or get help. So there's no one size fit all when it comes to fighting against FGM. It's just trying to find what works for every country. The language is important, the approach is important, understanding the local dynamics. Because if you look at the investment in the fight against FGM and GPV in general over the years, it's in millions of dollars. But the shift has not been major. In Gambia, for example, every year uh that there is a survey uh through the UNICEF DHS, there's always always 0.1% shift or 1% shift, maximum 2% shift, despite all the investment. So it means we need to sit again as you know uh activists on the ground, we need to be listened to. Our voices are important when some of these decisions are made at global level, when some of these strategies are being developed at global level in order to be able to get it right. Because there was a timeline ending LGM by 2030. But coming from a practicing community and a Gambian, I know LGM is not ended by 2030. If you compare that to the investment so far, it's ridiculous. So it means that there's something we are not getting right, something is not right somewhere, and we're not blaming anyone for it. All we're saying is we all need to go back to the drawing board and sit together on the same table where our voices are listened to. I wanted to share a recent development in Gandhi. I'm not sure if you got to hear about it when uh a one-month-old baby died last month as a result of FGM, and uh the government is taking it seriously. Currently, you know, there are preliminary findings indicating the child was allegedly by the police force circumcised and later developed severe bleeding. She was rushed to a hospital, a local hospital, where she was pronounced dead on arrival. And currently, two women involved in the case are in police custody. These are some of the developments locally.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you for sharing that story. As heartbreaking as it is, it's important that we remind ourselves of the consequences of FGM that are happening right now. So, returning to the report, you will be launching the report at the 80th session of the UN General Assembly.
SPEAKER_02:The idea of us launching it there is, you know, this year's the 80th anniversary of General Assembly, and we wanted to have a solid platform like the UN to launch this so we are heard. But what's better is what we will do is we'll actually follow up after the event. Each UN member state will receive a digital copy of this report. We're also building a database to send a copy to global NGOs, not just working in gender-based violence, but we're having conversations with global charities working in anti-poverty space, food security, you know, environmental charities, because this actually concerns all of us as a civil society, and you know, governments need to pay attention to it, members of the public need to pay attention to it. I think because the this issue was handled so siloed, and survivors have been left so alone in their efforts, that's what hasn't worked. So that's why we'll actually try to mobilize everyone and ping them a digital copy of this, and it will not be behind a paywall. What's great about this report, you know, you can just access it free of charge. You could be a student, you could be a government worker, a frontline police, or a random member of the public who's interested in this issue. You will be able to access this, look at the report country by country, and see what the landscape is in that region. And we hope that this informs funders and donors. And we are looking for unlikely donors after this, not just the you know, same old, same old donors giving the same amount, but actually for everyone to be mobilized so that that, you know, that baby's um suffering family members have access to you know legal rights or funding or the pushing power that we want them to have. So that's the idea behind this report. We have great speakers. I mean, Sir Max Hill is coming with us as one of our key speakers. We have Diakka Kamara. Um, she has the Akakamara Foundation based in Guinea. She's coming, look her look her charity up, please. Um, and with the wonderful partnership with the African Women's Organization, you know, Lisa's organization, we are launching a number of side events. We're also going to launch a film called Metatezi, Daughters of Tomorrow, made by another co-founder of African Women's Rights Advocates. Um, and that film will be showed in George Washington University and in New York in as well as Washington. So we we are having a big plan off many events where as many people as possible can see our work, they can go and communicate that with their institutions, organizations, companies.
SPEAKER_00:And how can listeners access this report? They will find it on our website. And Lisa, with activism like this happening at the UN, how do we bridge the gap between global conversations in places like the UN and then the lived realities of women and girls in local communities?
SPEAKER_03:Again, like I say, um dialogue, because if you look at most of these countries where FGM is prevalent, the UN does operate in those countries and they do have direct contact with the people on the ground as well as governments. So it is important that the UN listens to the activists or the survivors, but it's also important that we are working closely with governments in order to be able to draw realistic plans and uh as well as implement some of these laws. Like Samak said, a lot of countries do have laws, either standalone laws or embedded laws, but they're not working. So if if the UN uh with all the power it has um works closely with some of these governments and uh make sure that they are part of the process of developing these laws, I think it would be more helpful, given that most of the data or the information available on the ground is with the UN. They conduct some of these surveys, um, especially related to FGM and GBV, child marriage in general in Gambia, as well as other countries in the sub-region, they're spareheaded by the UN. So UN has the tools and the data that they need to convince governments to put more work uh to the fight against FGM and also invest in the fight against FGM. Because some of these governments make laws as well, but there isn't any investment in uh disseminating those information or even informing the general public that here are the laws, these are the reporting mechanisms, this is where you go to, and this is the support that's available. They just make the laws and that is it. People don't even know there are laws, people don't know who to go to. So it requires investment from the government as well as collaboration between the UN and these governments.
SPEAKER_00:So Lisa mentioned the use of law. Max, if you could see one change in global law or enforcement in the next five years, what do you think would make the biggest difference?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think on this issue, I'd like to see um universally recognised offence-specific legislation. That is that is the first step, uh, which some countries have achieved, others haven't. So let's have laws in which parliaments around the world stand up and say this must be outlawed and we're going to call it what it is. And the second step is that the authorities who sit behind the law, that means investigators, usually police and then prosecutors, are given the tools, including the resources to make those laws practical. And then the third step is to reach the end of the chain of causation, something lawyers often think hard about. Where is this starting? Uh where is this child abuse coming from and who is at the top of that chain? Because just like um conspiracies to import drugs, it's no point in just singling out the people who are at the bottom of the chain. You have to go to the top if the world is going to change.
SPEAKER_02:I think from a legal perspective, we want to see more men in prison because when you put men in prison, things actually change on a large scale. Like, for example, very quickly, in my childhood, I grew up in a very conservative and you know, I was in a horrible environment that you wouldn't want a girl child or anyone to grow up in. And, you know, we've had some friends at school whose fathers died and they were very abusive fathers, and all of a sudden they were able to ride a bike and do the things that they weren't able to do before, but the mother was the heavy-handed, abusive-looking person, and then her character would have changed instantly and her behavior, and we were like, so what happened, you know, Aisha, like, how come your mom is like a different person now? And then they were like, Oh, because my dad died, and you know, now she can do whatever she wants. And that was a clear, you know, awakening moment for me as a child that maybe it's not the women, you know, because they're already the perpetrators of, you know, often of gender-based violence, that what they look like, but it comes from men. And you know, we've seen this in my family. When my dad went to prison, it's a whole different environment now. You know, I'm seeing it, I I met a different version of my mom. So I think that's really important that we actually see this as a male-led crime and go after the right criminals. I really want to see more men in prison in the UK for FGM. We had one case, perfect case Max talked about. That was the perfect case. Please look up that the third FGM successful prosecution, the conspiracy case. We want more prosecutions like that. Because when you do that, then women are more free to do what they want to do. Because this is basically modern slavery. If this is happening in a family, none of the women or girls in that family are free.
SPEAKER_00:And Semma, where have you seen the most progress in the fight against FGM and gender-based violence?
SPEAKER_02:I was saying this is actually the biggest progress I have seen. You know, not to not to say that because, you know, I work for this charity, but I think this is in the FGM campaign, this is the biggest thing that we have had after the documentaries that was made, you know, 10, 15 years ago. Because I think that was the biggest achievement in, you know, and this didn't start just 10 years ago. You know, anti-FGM campaigning has been done for you know nearly three decades by people started back in the 90s, 2000s. But you know, just to say that that those documentaries, when they came in place, we had great public awareness in the UK, but also globally, all of a sudden Guardian started a media campaign, and you know, the the Clear Awards recognized an FGM campaign, and globally there was a discussion where you know new funding came through. And I would say maybe like almost like the first wave, second wave feminism. I would say this is the second wave change that I have seen to date because we've not had this um kind of resource. And when we were having dialogues with the large organizations like UNFPA, UNICEF who are doing great work, but we just need to know that they're also tied to funding they receive. So they may not have the appropriate funding to cover everything or a great research like this. So this year's theme that we will be having in our parallel events is actually the public-private partnerships. So I've never seen in this space a public-private partnership partnership as such, but not even in the gender-based violence area. Whenever you have a research, I mean, often from experience, because I also worked as a consultant for a long time, you tend to get like 20, 30 grand for a piece of research, and you you hire a consultant and you do it, but you know,$30,000 pounds, whatever. You can't conduct a research like this. The billable hours that went into this by both King and Spaulding and Wilmer Hale would have been above three million, right? Yeah, easily. And we've also spoken with Oliver Weiman, a Marshall McClellan business, you know, very globally known, wonderful consultancy company. And we've said we want the economic aspect of this. Having seen the draft of this um this report, can you give us a number on how much this is costing our society? And they came up with a number. I think it's something around 3.2 billion that is costing us per year. You know, we could recover that amount that costs to end FGM in a few years if we actually had the will to end FGM globally, you know, as politicians, as government members, as NGOs, as members of the public. So I think that is, I think this is the second. Wave achievement that I have seen. And I would say it also taught us as a charity and our partners, because many of our partners who are large, you know, that we have some partners on board who have 50 million per year budget in the NGO space. We have some partners who have$5,000, you know, and they all said the same thing. I have never seen a partnership like this in gender-based violence. This partnership happens in other areas of nonprofit, you know, like homelessness. We have seen great reports being done, you know, in in cancer development. We've seen great reports being done public-private, but we've not seen this in the gender-based violence space. So I think we have learned as gender-based violence advocates, in ending advocates, that a partnership like this is possible and you can have dream scenario. If you want something done, there are firms out there with the right people who will actually do it.
SPEAKER_00:And taking the report aside, as I believe this is the next major breakthrough when it comes to ending FGM, where do you think the next big breakthrough will come from?
SPEAKER_02:It's just another report if nothing is being done. So what we need to do is actually we need to mobilize enough will from governments and donors and everyone who wants to end FGM that this report actually needs to be utilized as the bank of information that we needed. So now we know what we do with the information. Because before we didn't have this knowledge, we didn't have access to this much information because no one has put together this information on a global landscape due to funding restraints. But now that we have this information, I mean, I would be very annoyed and die a very unhappy person if, you know, I worked on this report with Max and colleagues and nothing ever happens. So I think the dream scenario would be that people actually read it and when they see the issues, because we have recommendations in there. This is missing, this is it's a no-brainer. You go ahead and implement those changes, whoever you are, wherever you are. And anyone can do that. You know, if a teacher in a school can implement changes and campaign based on what they are seeing in that report. So no one should think, oh, I'm just a small person. And I think that's why we have issues like FGM and child marriage and modern slavery in our day today, because people think, oh, I'm just a small person. No, one person can change the world if they mobilize with others. So I think that's what needs to happen with this report.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. It's amazing seeing the work this relationship has built. Max and Semma, what would you say you've learned from working in this partnership and also from each other?
SPEAKER_01:That's a very good question. I think that um what we've learned is that by coming together, you know, we are more than the sum of our parts. It's a phrase often used, but it's definitely true in this case. Um, speaking from the law firm's perspective, it has been um really encouraging, uh heartening to find in the case of my own firm, dozens of corporate and commercial lawyers who have not hesitated to give large amounts of their time for free to compiling this data. And the same is true of the our partner firm who've done this work. And what that means is that there is, if you like, a silent majority out there who don't take very much persuading that there's something fundamentally wrong in what some people still try to call a practice, uh some people try to call a religious obligation, some people try to call um a community matter which doesn't merit external um attention. I reject all of those supposed uh justifications for this. And I think what we've learnt is if you get the language right on what we're talking about here and you recognize and hear a survivor community globally, you can put the solution into their hands. And that is what the The Vengers does incredibly successfully as an exclusively female-run, female-led um uh community of people uh who through over time and through experience find their voice. Uh the role for others, you know, me and many others included, is simply to amplify that voice. And we know that the United Nations has a political agenda every time it meets, of course it does. Uh, and so we're not pretending that uh to the United Nations FGM is the leading issue of 2025, but I would struggle to find something um globally that impacts as many people as FGM does. And so that is why not only have we spent nine, ten months compiling this data, but we put together a strong team, including some of the lawyers who've actually done the work on this, who will be available in the UN building itself across New York City and across Washington, DC, to talk to anybody who is waking up, hopefully assisted by this report, to just how serious this issue is. And that is a shared journey that I think once you've started it, there's no way you're gonna step away.
SPEAKER_00:So what's next for the Revengers? Do you have any upcoming campaigns or goals that you're excited about?
SPEAKER_02:Well, we have a one question campaign, which is actually, you know, a big part of this report where we want every woman in the UK uh to be surveyed on FGM so we can actually address the data poverty. We want the reconstructive surgery to be available for women, but we also want mental health care for women.
SPEAKER_00:And final question for each of you. If our listeners take just one action after this episode, what do you think it should be?
SPEAKER_03:Really trying to disseminate this report and seeing how best governments around the globe, but I would speak more specifically on Africa, get hold of this report. Uh, I think there's a lot of information, vital information, that would be helpful on the ground. I think that would ignite fire or the discussion again on FGM because things have really a little bit calmed down in this part of the world. And then we need something to start the discussions. We know FGM is happening on a daily basis, but uh this report could be a way of starting these discussions again, especially with the governments.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, I have quite a similar thought to Lisa's. What I'd say is if you are inspired by listening to this recording and you go to the Avengers website and you access the report and you read it, what we encourage you to do is tell somebody else about it once you've read it. Um it's a very long report, but whoever that next person is, whichever country in the world they live in, there is something for them to learn, and there are action points to be taken in that country. So it's don't just read, read and share.
SPEAKER_02:I would say become an advocate after you see this report. Whoever you are, you have to become an advocate of you know this issue. And it's very easy to actually educate yourself. You can go out there and look at our resources. There's many organizations who have wonderful. I mean, we have the amount of resources we have on our website alone is enough to educate yourself. Reach out if you feel overwhelmed about the issue, but we need more advocates. I think every person needs to be advocates of children's rights, and this is a fundamental breach of humans' rights and you know, women's and children's rights. It's the most essential thing we want to to protect bodily autonomy of women and girls. And I don't think it's much to ask for, and it's not a difficult thing to get on board with. I think everyone will agree when I say women and children should be safe. That's what we want to achieve as a society. That that message needs to be passed on, and we need more advocates helping us.
SPEAKER_00:On September 16th, King and Spaulding, the Avengers, and Wilma How released their groundbreaking report at the United Nations General Assembly. The report, titled Global Health and Legal Landscape Report on Female Genital Mutilation, goes country by country reviewing the legal frameworks, healthcare access and support systems available to FGM survivors and proposes actionable solutions to improve survivor care and global accountability. In partnership with African women's rights advocates, the Vervengers hosted civil society members, corporate and public representatives and funders to a high-impact event where they made the first of its kind global report available to the public. They also premiered their short animation film at the UN during this reception. The launch of this report was a huge success. That's the end of our two-part series featuring the Vevengers. We hope you were moved to act just like Max and Semma mentioned. The report can be found linked in the episode show notes, as well as more information on how you can support the Vevengers work. You've been listening to Rebel Justice. If you'd like to support our work and receive four digital editions and one print issue a year, subscribe to the View for just£20. Make sure to follow us on our social media. We're on Instagram at the underscore view underscore magazines. And you can also find us on LinkedIn, X, and TikTok. If you'd like to reach out to us directly, you can email inquiries to us at press at theview magazine.org. Please share this story.