Rebel Justice

E. 84: Justice for Carol Lloyd - A Fight Against Extradition, Neglect and Silence

• Rebel Justice - The View Magazine • Episode 84

Share episode

Send us a text

What happens when you fall through the cracks between two nations? For Carol Lloyd, it's meant a decade-long nightmare of prison cells, medical neglect, and abandonment by the very governments meant to protect her.

Carol sits in a Canadian prison today – triple-bunked, seriously ill, and without legal representation. Her British passport was seized during extradition, while her application to revoke Canadian citizenship has sat untouched for over two years. When eventually released, she faces homelessness in a country where she has no support system, with no clear path back to her family in the UK.

Through the eyes of her daughter Danielle, we witness the devastating human cost when bureaucracy overrides compassion. From being denied neurological care despite specialist recommendations, to the heartbreaking moment Danielle drove hours to visit her mother only to learn she'd been secretly extradited that morning – this story exposes how easily vulnerable people disappear inside a system that refuses to see them.

Credits

Guest: Danielle Lloyd

Soundtrack: Particles (Revo Main Version) by [Coma-Media] 

Producer: Charlotte Janes


Download Issue 14 of The View Magazine to read the full article here: https://theviewmag.org.uk/product/the-view-issue-14/


Subscribe to The View for just £20/year: 4 digital issues + 1 print edition.

Follow us on Instagram @the_view_magazines, and find us on X, LinkedIn, and Facebook.


For enquires, contact: press@theviewmagazine.org



Support the show

For more unmissable content from The View sign up here

Host:

you're listening to rebel justice, the podcast from the view magazine. When we think about justice, we think about it as an abstract, something that happens to someone else somewhere else, but justice and the law regulate every aspect of our interactions with each other, with organizations and with the government. We never think about it until it impacts our lives or those of someone close. Our guests are women with lived experience of the justice system, whether as victims or women who have committed crimes, people at the forefront of civic action who put their lives on the line to demand a better world. We ask them to share their insight into how we might repair a broken and harmful system with humanity and dignity. We also speak with people who are in the heart of the justice system, creating important change Judges, barristers, human rights campaigners, mental health advocates, artists and healers. In this episode, we speak with Danielle Lloyd, whose mother, carol, has spent the past decade caught in a relentless legal nightmare between the UK and Canada.

Host:

A dual citizen by paperwork but abandoned by both governments in practice. Carol has faced medical neglect, repeated extraditions and degrading prison conditions, all while battling severe health issues. She currently sits in a Canadian prison cell, triple bunked, unwell and without legal representation, because no one would take her case on legal aid. Her British passport was seized during her extradition. On legal aid Her British passport was seized during her extradition. Her application to revoke her Canadian citizenship has sat untouched for over two years, well beyond the official processing timeline, and because of this limbo the British consulate refuses to step in. She's at risk of being released into a country where she has no home, no ID, no support and no path home. Her daughter, danielle, has been left to fight this battle mostly alone.

Host:

In today's episode, she shares what it's like to watch your mother deteriorate inside a system that refuses to acknowledge her, and what needs to change for women like Carol. This conversation is about more than legal systems and extradition. It's about a woman who spent her life working hard, only to be failed by institutions meant to protect her. It's about neglect, both medical and emotional, inside prison walls, and it's about what happens when you try to protect someone you love and every door is closed in your face. Could you tell us a little about your mother, what kind of person she is and what was life like before this all began?

Danielle:

So obviously this has been going on for over 10 years. So prior to this happening, obviously she was a professional person and had a full-time job. She moved back to the UK quite suddenly and seemed like a completely different person. If I'm honest and I would I thought she had a bit of a nervous breakdown and but I didn't know, obviously, what had been going on behind the scenes.

Host:

But yeah, she's always been really hard working, she's worked all her life always kind yeah, and just sort of everybody liked her really thank you, and you mentioned it's been going on for over 10 years. When did you first start to realize that maybe the situation was going to become this long, difficult legal battle?

Danielle:

we didn't expect it to last as long as it has. Really. She spent a lot of time on bail during covid and then, obviously, extradition cases take a really long time and there's always lots of red tape, if you like. And oh, the next step and the next step is this. So it seems to go on a long time before anything really happens. And then the extradition just happened quite suddenly, without us sort of knowing. Well, she's been extradited twice. Actually. She came back after the first one because she had some medical procedures, and then they applied to remove her again, and that's when she ended up in Bronzefield and they said she was a flight risk. Even though she told them where she lived, where she was going to be, they didn't care. So she ended up in Bronzefield then for two and a half years so how would you probably describe her treatment when she was at bronzefield?

Danielle:

um, it varied really and depending on who who she came across, I think the mental health treatment was really poor. She spent some time in a mental health hospital prior to being in bronzefield. They were going to section it but she went in voluntarily. Then I felt that because she didn't have sort of personality disorder or schizophrenia or any of those sort of more extreme mental health illnesses, she was just ignored and left. She had attempted suicide on a couple of occasions. She was found with a bag over her head in bed and they didn't even remove the bag out of the room afterwards. So there was some serious neglect there really. She was on the Acts Register but I felt that that wasn't that helpful. She had meetings every week and so on, but nothing really sort of came out of that that was helpful or getting a treatment, because ultimately the case was always going on in the background. So I guess how does your mental health improve if there was?

Danielle:

There was no resolve to that and in terms of, she does have some neurological conditions and she does see a specialist here quite locally in Merseyside and she was quite desperate to see a neurologist because she was worried that her symptoms would progress. She kept asking for a neurologist appointment, but then if there was no staff available then she just wouldn't go. But she didn't know she'd missed an appointment because obviously when you're in prison they don't tell you you've got an appointment, they just take you on the day, um. And also she found it really difficult to sort of go and handcuffs and so on, um, and you know she wasn't a risk. She's riddled with arthritis and mobility is really poor, so I'm gonna run away. When she got to the hospital but I think she felt there was no dignity and no privacy really in appointments either, and she is an older woman, um, and probably didn't feel like she could be as open in front of, like, the guards and things about what was, you know, really going on.

Danielle:

Yeah, in terms of medication, they messed around with the medication a lot and she was treated like a recovering addict really. So she was on a lot of pain medication for arthritis that she'd been on for years gabapentin and so on and they just stop it, they just discontinue it, and when she asked sort of why, they say, oh, you've been on it long enough, now we're taking you off it, but it was for chronic pain, it wasn't because she was sort of a recovering addict, but they sort of tend to tar everyone with the same brush. So there was lots of emails on my behalf, sort of trying to deal with the prison, and which always proved quite difficult, really, because you always got blanket responses, yeah and but saying that it's much better than it is in Canada, because you have absolutely no way of getting in touch with anyone there. So I feel like there she is completely left to her own devices, whereas here we sort of knew what we could tap into and we could complain to him a little bit, and sometimes it helped, sometimes it didn't, but it's knowing the right things to say, isn't it?

Host:

and who to and who to approach really yeah, exactly, I can say on behalf of the podcast. Trying to reach out to calgary, it's been almost impossible, so staying still in the uk before extradition. How did the uk government or people in authority respond to your family's attempts to prevent the extradition um?

Danielle:

the local mps couldn't really help because they said they can't get involved with sort of criminal matters. To make it more complicated, we wanted to do a citizen. So because of that, and we did try to revoke the citizenship approximately nearly two and a half years ago, it says on the government website that the processing times are seven months. They still haven't processed it, so it's almost like they're doing it on purpose so that she doesn't have any rights as a british person there.

Danielle:

Yeah, so the likes of um the foreign office, they won't get involved. Obviously, prisoners abroad, they won't get involved. So we just feel out on a limb really, and that's upsetting as well because I feel like she's with us and she's lived here all what, most of her life. She was born here and we're just not not getting any support and obviously she's she's housed here. Yeah, there's nobody there, but, um, no one's being very supportive of that really?

Host:

and then going to the extradition itself, do you think enough or really anything was done to consider the humanitarian medical grounds for your mother in that process?

Danielle:

um, no, um, in the first extradition case, um, she was accused of exacerbating her symptoms.

Danielle:

They said I used my knowledge as a nurse to support her with her lies.

Danielle:

Basically, we were staying in like close to westminster magistrate's court but mum's not very good at walking and there's lots of falls and blackouts so we'd got a wheelchair for it. Because we wheeled it into court, they were making out like we were using that as some sort of prop and and they actually said to my mum stand up and walk now in in the middle of of proceedings, um, which was not really relevant to anything really and it was just degrading, to be honest with you, but the constant. I thought when we went into the extradition case that they would see, you know that this is sort of tore us apart as a family and we were all really struggling and they'd see we're a nice family and you know it was a mistake and etc. But we just didn't see it was that way at all, which was really distressing, to be honest, because it wasn't expected, but just the way that they could treat your mother in the court setting just almost trying to undermine you and your family.

Danielle:

It's just horrendous it's just hard to get people to see you, isn't it? And no matter what you say, they pick holes in it and yeah, it's just really difficult. And you know, you are being honest and saying it how you see it, and they still managed to twist that, so it was really distressing.

Host:

And so what happened when your mother arrived in Canada? How was she treated by the prison system there?

Danielle:

So the first time it was during COVID and she was kept in some sort of holding centre, just in a room with a mattress on the floor. She actually blacked out at that point. During that time she had no access to her phone. Yeah, she blacked out and they tried to wake her up by poking two fingers in her neck and told her to get off. But I mean, she struggles to even get off the couch when she's at home, so there's no way she's getting up off the floor. And same for, like getting into prison bands and things like that. Obviously there's big steps up. So they picked her up and threw her into a van while she was shackled and she damaged her shoulder.

Danielle:

When our lawyers asked for footage of all that they've they've not provided it. They said they haven't got it. Um, yeah, so the treatment wasn't good. In terms of medication, she didn't. She didn't get it clothing wise, and it's just blanket sort of clothing for everybody.

Danielle:

So in terms of underwear, you just get given a set that's then gone back into the washer. Then somebody else can wear the next day. You don't get your own. So there's no dignity clothing or you're just wearing what everybody else wears, whereas I feel like here in the UK there is a bit more dignity.

Danielle:

You're strip searched when you go in, but also if you've moved to a different part of the prison you're strip searched again. So every time you've moved you're strip searched and you know physical examinations and things as well, which doesn't go on here and certainly didn't go on at Bronzefield, as you're probably aware like it's. It's a bit more dignified where they I think they just sit in a chair and then it just scans them um while they're clothed, but there it's completely strip searched and my mum sort of suffered with body image and bulimia all her life, so you can imagine how difficult that that was for her really yeah, I think as well that kind of happening to you would be horrifying and scary in any situation, but especially for your mother on her own in a country so far from her family.

Host:

That's even a whole nother level on top of the already accumulation that's happening to these women. So you've kind of covered it. But would you say her health issues have been addressed properly in canada?

Danielle:

no um in terms of things like her safety. So I know at bronze field she was given sort of grab rails and things like that and she had a call button and she suffers with like your frequency and relates to a neurological condition, but there's no toilet in the south so she has to pause at the time she needs a toilet and then it's like a curing system. So in terms of just general activities as a daily living, it's more challenging. The showers are cold and for whatever reason I don't know um, and obviously if you've got joint problems, the damp and the cold affects them. I don't think she's really seen anyone regarding any of her conditions. No one's really assessed or anything. They're just sort of left, I think, even basic things like painkillers. My mum's at risk of a stroke as well and where she is now there's no medical care through the night. So if she did stroke no one would get to her quick enough, you know before some sort of catastrophic damage would be done.

Danielle:

But she's just sort of that. All that's ignored really.

Host:

Has there been any transparency or communication from Canadian authorities about what comes next for her?

Danielle:

They've said that they're not willing to allow her time on remand. Two years, two months, it was. It was March 2023 to May 2025. And they said they're not including any of that time off a sentence.

Danielle:

So they're expecting her to complete a sentence again on top. But apart from that, no, there hasn't been any sort of transfer. And also in the initial proceedings here in the extradition case they said once she's sentenced there she'll be repatriotised back to the UK. But I think she won't be now because she's a dual citizen. They'll just use that as a reason not to bring her back. So that's us. She's going to spend longer there with no family, no visitors, etc. Because it's it's a seven hour flight away. Yeah, so it would be really difficult for us to go over there and have visits and there's no video calls and it's literally all on the phone.

Host:

And there's no phones in the cell either, so it's only when they can come out of the cell and because of the time difference it's really hard to even get to speak, you've mentioned previously, her passport was taken, and so when the time does come for her release, what do you think that would even look like in terms of being in Canada, so far from her family?

Danielle:

We still don't know what's going to happen regarding the passport situation. We've heard that they just get released at night time, and so obviously we'd have to try and arrange a hotel as soon as we know she's she's getting released and then try and obtain a passport from there, but she'll have no documents or ID or anything with her. So it's going to be a challenge really. But yeah, we don't know where that passport is. She's been told that they just get rid of them after they've used them To get her over there. This time. I believe they just created some travel documents for her, but I don't think they would do that to bring her back because, again, she's a Canadian citizen, so it's not their responsibility to do so, and so obviously that's causing her a lot of distress as well, like how is she going to get home? Um, she'd probably be okay to get a Canadian passport, but then coming into the UK with a Canadian passport can be challenging as well.

Host:

Yeah, I guess that doesn't also resolve the issue of you're here, she's there. She probably, after going through this horrendous ordeal, wants to just see you and the rest of the family as soon as possible. Yeah, how has this experience affected you personally and your wider family? How has this?

Danielle:

experience affected you personally and your wider family. I think it's just destroyed us really, because we're always, it's always there. So if, like my daughter's 10, so it's been her whole life that this has always been there, and I think it does affect your enjoyment in life and it's and it's sort of that, never knowing the outcome, it's always the next legal battle or and we've just never had any good news. No one's that. You know. Nothing's ever gone our way. Really, yeah, it's, it's been a challenge, but obviously, having children, I've had to keep going for them and I'm just sort of trying to keep a normal routine and but you know it has. It has affected me and also, when they came to take my mum, the police they came at four o'clock in the morning and I was just woken up um by my phone ring and saying police are here, they're taking your mum. And we didn't. We, we had no idea.

Danielle:

We didn't see it coming and that was it. And then I couldn't get around to my mum quick enough. So I think that for a long time after I kept waking up at four o'clock in the morning, reliving it really, um, because once they take them you don't know where they're going and you'll get to speak to them again. And then this second time they took them, we'd arranged for me to drive down to Brunsfield, so it's about four and a half hours from where I live yeah so I drove down, I arranged childcare for my children, drove, drove down, got there about one o'clock ahead of my appointment.

Danielle:

Bronzefield had said they'd give her a longer appointment time with me because of the travel et cetera. I got there I said, oh, I'm here to see Carol Lloyd. And they said, oh, are you here to collect her things? And I went, no, I'm here for a visit. And they were looking at me blankly. They said, ok, we'll get someone to come and talk to you. And she'd gone.

Danielle:

They took her that morning and I said, well, why didn't nobody tell me? Why did they let me drive all this way? And not only that, I had to drive back really upset, because then I knew she was at Heathrow Airport. I knew she was at Heathrow Airport, I went to speak to her, see her again, and I just thought that was cruel to let my mum think she was getting a visit when they wouldn't have known that she was going. They could have cancelled the visit and made an excuse, really, but they didn't. They let me drive all the way down and then just came out with all the belongings when I thought I was going to see her. So I just thought that was really cruel and it's not how you treat human beings, is it really?

Host:

No, that is exceptionally cruel for both of you.

Danielle:

Yeah, I was just like screaming, crying in the car park, thinking I've got to drive all the way home now with all this belongings.

Host:

Yeah, it was just horrible so you've been fighting hard on your mother's behalf. Do you feel like the public really understands what your mother is going through or how this system can and is failing vulnerable people?

Danielle:

no, I've always said after this, once this was over, I want to be part of of something, to sort of influence, change, um, because the way people are treated and I think a lot of the stories that my mum was telling me about her friends in prison, it was almost always related to domestic violence, abuse, um, from in whatever form, and I just think women in prison just the system needs an overhaul, doesn't it? I don't think people have any idea sort of what goes on in the sort of the derogatory sort of treatment that they get. Really, I know there was one occasion in Bronzefield where my mum had asked for pain relief and they said they didn't have it, they hadn't got the prescription or something. And she said, well, what am I supposed to do then? And this prison officer just said to her cry.

Danielle:

And I thought actually she was a nurse. Sorry, she wasn't a prison officer. She said to cry and I thought, as a nurse, and your code of conduct, that is, yeah, graceful um to to even say that to someone. And I think there's a lot of a judgment that goes on within the prison setting, isn't there? Um, so, yeah, I don't. I don't think people understand, but in terms of my mum's case.

Host:

No, people, people don't really know and obviously we've tried to keep it that way, but I think now this has happened, it's different yeah, I think it's so important you speaking out, because I'm sure there's so many people going through not the exact same situation, but similar situations that need a voice to um doing that.

Danielle:

And that's exactly it. They don't have a voice, do they? They don't have a voice whatsoever. Um, and that that must be so difficult, and it's not surprising that that women suffer with sort of mental health issues in prison because they don't know how to communicate, because they're not listened to. So then my mum said often they'd fire off the handle, but it's because it's in frustration, isn't it? Nobody they feel, nobody cares, nobody's listening to them, nobody wants to help, and that's fairly sad, isn't it?

Host:

and sadly it's something that we're just seeing time and time again in every form of health, or yeah, that it's just not cared about even even in the prison or the organizations running prisons. There's just no humanity at this point, I think no so, in your view, what are the biggest failures in the way that both the UK and Canadian governments treat people facing extradition?

Danielle:

Well, I think, in terms of England and Canada, I think the fact that the remand time isn't. You know, there was no option to go on bail. So she had no choice, because one of the comments from the legal team over there from the Crown was you've chosen to argue it in prison, but that was on the advice of a legal team here that you should argue it, so it wasn't her choice to just sit in prison. So I think that I think healthcare needs aren't met. Healthcare needs aren't listened to. She actually had a letter, say, said that she wasn't fit to fly and she was told by the police that took her to Heathrow Airport. We don't listen to those, we don't take any notice of that. We had a letter from a head neurologist to say a long journey wouldn't be recommended on an, an aircraft. That was ignored. So there's lots of, lots of failings and just basically ignoring her health really, and also, you know, the right to family life yeah.

Host:

So what would justice look like now for you and for your mother?

Danielle:

well, I think I think she's served a time really. She's been in the category a prison and she's 66 years of age. Um, I think she's. She's done a time. I think she'd have been in the uk and sentenced here. She'd already be out now. But they're just, they're just prolonging it and prolonging the torture for all of us really, and I think it is she going to survive? There's only so much she can take. She's triple bunked in a cell, often with people coming off drug or with mental health problems themselves, and the triple bumps, which isn't even actually allowed. But anyway, because the spaces are so cramped, there's no opportunity to sort of work there, so there's no purpose, whereas when she was at Bronzefield at least she could work in the chapels. She had a bit of purpose, but there's none now. There's nothing at all. So I think, how long?

Host:

can we sustain this? How long can we keep going really, and what support do you need right now from public, from media, from auditions, or maybe, if listeners want to help support, do you know what maybe they could do?

Danielle:

I wish I did. I think, yeah, I think it's just increasing awareness about the case. I mean, like I said, I think she's done her time, so I think it's just cruel now to keep her, and I think she should come home and have access to healthcare, and for what time she might have left in her life. Really, she's not a well woman for 66 anyway, and obviously prison causes accelerated age in any way, doesn't it?

Host:

And then, finally, is there a message you'd like to send directly to those in power, whether in the UK or Canada?

Danielle:

Well, I'd just like for her to be released, really, and the case to be looked at, and looked at with empathy. And she was a victim of abuse and, like I say, she always worked, never been in debt, never been in trouble with the police. So I just feel that there needs to be some more empathy shown for her.

Host:

As part of this episode, we reached out to several key organizations and officials to ask for comment and clarification regarding carol's case. We contacted prisoners abroad, the foreign commonwealth. We contacted Prisoners Abroad, the Foreign Commonwealth and Development Office and Maria Eagle MP, asking specifically why no support has been provided to a long-term UK resident and citizen in such a vulnerable position and whether they believe her extradition and ongoing detention comply with basic duty of care standards, especially in light of repeated medical concerns. We also asked what support, if any, is currently being offered or even considered for Carol's passport situation, her potential repatriation or access to healthcare. At the time of this recording, none of them have responded with comment. That silence speaks volumes not just about Carol's situation, but about how easy it is for cases like hers to fall through the cracks entirely when someone doesn't fit into the system's boxes.

Host:

Danielle and Carol's story isn't just about one woman. It's about what happens when bureaucracy overrides basic humanity. Carol has served time, suffered deeply and been denied her right to proper care, legal representation and even a path home. She's been forgotten by the very systems meant to protect her. If you've been moved by what you heard today, please don't let this story fade into silence. This is where your voice matters.

Host:

Here's how you can help. First, share this episode, post it, talk about it, email it to someone. The more people who hear Carol's story, the harder it becomes for governments and institutions to ignore what's happening to her. Second, contact the British Foreign Office. Carol is a British citizen who's been denied consular support because of an unresolved Canadian citizenship status, one she's been trying to revoke for over two years. That delay is costing her freedom, her health and possibly her life. You can email them directly at fcdocorrespondence at fcdogovuk, or call their public inquiry line at 020 70 08 5000. Be firm, but be respectful and remind them she is their responsibility. Third, speak to your MP. Let them know that Carol's case matters. Let them know this is about more than one woman. It's about the broken systems that allow vulnerable people to disappear inside red tape and never come back out. And finally, if you have a platform, use it. Whether that's 100 followers or a podcast of your own, say something.

Host:

Stories like Carol's aren't rare. They're just rarely told. You've been listening to Rebel Justice. If you'd like to support our work and receive four digital editions and one print issue a year, subscribe to the View for just £20. Make sure to follow us on our social media. We're on Instagram at the underscore view underscore magazines, and you can also find us on LinkedIn, x and TikTok. If you'd like to reach out to us directly, you can email enquiries to us at press@ theviewmagazine. org. Please share this story.