Rebel Justice

E. 82: Part 1 - Meeting Women Where They Are: Inside WPA’s Mission and Legacy

• Rebel Justice - The View Magazine • Episode 82

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Meg Egan, CEO of the Women’s Prison Association, takes us inside the oldest U.S. organization dedicated to supporting women impacted by incarceration. Since 1845, WPA has quietly revolutionized justice for women and families, addressing root causes like poverty, trauma, and the criminalization of survival.

Meg shares how WPA has evolved over 180 years while staying true to its belief that incarceration should never mean a lifetime of poverty or disconnection. We explore their vision for a community-based “infrastructure of service” that supports women at every stage of justice involvement—from pre-trial to post-release.

The episode features the story of  a young mother and college student turned WPA case manager, whose journey through the Justice Home program highlights the power of lived experience. 

This is the first of a two-part conversation that challenges us to reimagine justice rooted in healing, community, and real opportunity.


Credits

Guest: Meg Egan

Soundtrack: Particles (Revo Main Version) by [Coma-Media] 

Producer: Charlotte Janes


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Host:

You're listening to rebel justice, the podcast from the view magazine. When we think about justice, we think about it as an abstract, something that happens to someone else somewhere else. But justice and the law regulate every aspect of our interactions with each other, with organizations and with the government. We never think about it until it impacts our lives or those of someone close. Our guests are women with lived experience of the justice system, whether as victims or women who have committed crimes. People at the forefront of civic action who put their lives on the line to demand a better world. We ask them to share their insight into how we might repair a broken and harmful system with humanity and dignity. We also speak with people who are in the heart of the justice system, creating important change Judges, barristers, human rights campaigners, mental health advocates, artists and healers. In today's episode, the first of a two-part conversation, we're joined by Meg Egan, the CEO of the Women's Prison Association.

Host:

Founded in 1845, WPA is the oldest organisation in the US dedicated to supporting women impacted by incarceration. That's 180 years of advocacy, service and radical reimagining. Long before the words criminal justice reform became part of our national vocabulary, the WPA was built on the belief that incarceration should not be a life sentence to poverty, stigma or disconnection, not be a life sentence to poverty, stigma or disconnection, and that the best way to reduce re-offending is to invest in people and communities, not by punishing them. The organisation's work is rooted in addressing the actual causes poverty, trauma, mental health, structural racism, gender-based violence and the criminalisation of survival. Their programmes are holistic, personal and community-centred, offering everything from housing support and mental health care to legal advocacy, job readiness and family reunification services. Wpa's mission focuses on women and LGBTQIA plus individuals, offering support before, during and after incarceration. Their model centres the humanity of each client and offers something rarely found in justice systems hope, dignity and real opportunity.

Host:

They operate in courts, correctional facilities and directly within neighbourhoods across New York City, Westchester, Long Isand and beyond.

Host:

The vast majority of the people they serve are black, latinx and or gender diverse individuals who often face multiple layers of marginalisation within a system that was never built for them to survive, let alone thrive.

Host:

WPA is also fiercely engaged in policy and advocacy, working with justice systems to scale alternatives to incarceration, improve re-entry outcomes and push for the kinds of systemic reforms that could one day make their services obsolete. Meg Egan, the CEO of WPA, brings both lived experience and visionary leadership to this work. You'll hear a conversation about resistance, re-entry and the power of an organisation that has been doing the work quietly, consistently and and radically for generations. We'll talk about Meg's journey from jail oversight in Chicago and New York to leading the WPA today and how the organization is stabilizing and reimagining its impact for women and families across New York City. She shares insights into WPA's mission, the importance of trauma-informed care and a powerful story about one former participant who is now a member of staff and helping others. If you're interested in community-based alternatives to incarceration and the power of lived experience, this episode is for you.

Meg Egan:

I have been with WPA for about nine months, so not very long. I spent my career in the criminal legal system reform world, started in Chicago doing work with the Cook County Jail, in and around the Cook County Jail, and also did a bunch of work on youth violence reduction in Chicago. And then came to New York about 10 or 11 years ago and have continued that work in and out of government. And so I worked for the governor's office many years ago. I did a bunch of work around the plan to close Rikers Island, ran the board of correction, the New York City board of correction, which is the oversight body for the jail system. And then I've also worked for nonprofits doing research and policy development and also worked for a wonderful nonprofit here in New York called Fountain House which works with people with serious mental illness.

Meg Egan:

Yeah, so I came to WPA about, as I said, about nine months ago. And I came to WPA because this organization has this incredible legacy. We've existed for 180 years and I think there's an opportunity in this moment to really do more, to focus on support for women and their families in the community.

Host:

Yeah, I'm really interested in how you've kind of taken over what that process has been like and maybe what some of your priorities are, what you've already started to work on.

Meg Egan:

Yeah, so WPA has had some changes in leadership over the last several years, so part of what I wanted to do was just come in and stabilize a little bit. We have this amazing staff that works with women every single day, and when I say women, I mean that in the broadest sense of the word, right, anyone who identifies as a woman we work with, and we work with women in jail, in prison, in the community, it doesn't matter where they are, we will meet them there. And so really, my goal in coming into the organization was just to support our staff to do that work and make sure that they have what they need to do that really important and sometimes really hard work. And so, you know, we're doing things that you know organizations do with someone new to the leadership when there's been a period of instability, which is doing some strategic planning, really trying to figure out like what is WPA's both vision of the world and our vision, our place in that world. And so we've started this planning effort and we're talking to everybody that we can, you know, talking to our staff.

Meg Egan:

We're talking to participants, current and former participants, partners, stakeholders, really trying to get a sense of how we best, as WPA leverage our legacy, because we have this incredible legacy, but also meet the moment. So that work has been really fun and exciting. The staff has participated in really, really important ways and given us a lot of good feedback and I think we're setting a direction for the future. As I said, that leverages the legacy that we have but, I think, really takes advantage of the moment we are in and really centers on the support that we can give women in the community, regardless of where they are in the legal process.

Host:

Interesting how you can take the legacy but also recognize what's current, now that you need to change within your system.

Meg Egan:

Yeah, the work evolves and this has been. You know this is this is one of the interesting things about our DNA, I would say is, again, it's 180 years old and so it's evolved over time to really meet women where they are. From the start, we worked with women who were leaving prison, and this was in the mid-1800s, and we continue to do that work in many ways. But we also launched the first home-based alternative to incarceration program specifically for women in the city. So you know, we continue to evolve and I think that's an important part of our DNA to honor and continue.

Host:

Yeah, because it's the first organization in the US right to focus specifically on women. Yeah, yeah, and incarcerated women yeah, that's really impressive how and you mentioned like it keeps evolving, things keep changing nearly over two centuries. What do you see as the most critical needs today in comparison?

Meg Egan:

Yeah, I would say, and this isn't going to be surprising to anyone who's involved in these issues. I mean, one is housing safe and stable housing and two is robust, trauma-informed, because so many of the women that we work with have really deep. What we're trying to do is really identify those needs and where we can build that, what I describe as an infrastructure of service, an infrastructure of support in the community that women can access, regardless of where they are in the legal process. So, you know, we can engage people when they are just coming in and needed an alternative to detention, an alternative to jail, to remain in the community with their family, we can, you know, as they're in the community and their case is progressing, we can continue to work with them. We can also work with people who are returning from prison, from the three prisons upstate where women can be.

Meg Egan:

I would like us to set up that infrastructure, service and support, rather than focusing on one point in the system, focusing on one point in the system, and my hope by doing that is that support provides a real off-ramp from the criminal legal system, that we are able to address those basic needs that are absent and then ultimately lead to engagement with the system, because that's what we've done right. We've essentially criminalized poverty, and so, if we can reverse that trend one, people are no longer engaged in the system. Two, we make incarceration obsolete. The real public safety default is the community, because the outcomes are so much stronger for when we're able to support people in the community rather than sending them to jail or prison. And the research is pretty clear on the detrimental effects of incarceration. And that can have generational impact, because so many mothers are impacted by the system and that also impacts their children, and so our hope is that this is a long-term system of support for people.

Host:

I completely agree, and I'm also wondering if you could tell me a little bit more about how you deal with patients that have trauma and how you integrate mental health practices within rehabilitation systems comes in.

Meg Egan:

So everybody who comes to us will meet with our clinical services team. If we're the right person, if someone on our team is the right person to continue working with them, that's who they'll work with. If they already are engaged with someone and they like the person that they are engaged with, we'll just make sure that there's continuity of care there. So our goal is again to somewhat meet the person where they are and, based on what they are telling us they need, we will provide that care and I imagine that care will only increase, you know, as we see more and more women come into our care. That will be an essential pillar of support for us.

Host:

Yeah, it's really interesting to see how it's being integrated and mental health is being more prioritized throughout all systems, but especially in reintegration programs. It's very essential. I was also wondering what your thoughts are on maternal incarceration. You mentioned how it can really increase generational repetition. What are your thoughts on that? And incarceration you mentioned how it can really increase generational repetition. What are your thoughts on that and how do you guys help mothers?

Meg Egan:

So, yeah, as I said, the impact of a mother experiencing any moment of incarceration will have a generational impact. It's incredibly destabilizing for her individually and her children and her community. And we work with mothers. We have always worked with mothers. This is one of the things that we have always done. We have several areas of focus in our services.

Meg Egan:

So one is around an alternative to incarceration program which can start as an alternative to detention program and that is designed to allow women to remain in the community and remain with their families, with their children. So it's really that was the original intent behind sort of the in-home care that the women receive is to remain with their children. We also, for a very long time, have had family reunification programs. So when women are leaving jail and prison, we have housing that they can move into and we work with them. If ACS is involved, we work with ACS and work to reunite mothers with their children. It's a level of stability for them and for their children that is totally essential and, again, I think it meets women where they are. I mean, mothers want to be with their kids and separating them just has such a such a outsized impact. I see this as a as a pretty common sense public safety response. If you know, if you want to reduce crime, really providing support for families so that they are stable and remain connected is both essential and obvious in my mind.

Host:

Yeah, no, definitely I agree with that. Could you tell me a little bit more about a story or an example that has really touched you, that illustrates the power of this continuum of care?

Meg Egan:

One thing that we haven't talked about is there are many members of our staff who have their own lived experience, and one of our case managers who works in our Justice Home project so this is the Alternative to Incarceration Project is actually a former participant in the Justice Home program and I mean she tells this story. It's her story. So she obviously tells it far, far, far better than I ever can and she's telling her story in a really powerful way and what she says is she had been studying criminal justice in college. She was in school. She had a young daughter. College. She was in school. She had a young daughter. She came into contact with the system. She was released and told to go to an alternative to incarceration program and she just didn't have a good feeling about the program she was being mandated to because she was worried that they wouldn't understand exactly what she needed as a young single mother. And so she found WPA what she needed as a young, single mother. And so she found WPA. She came to work with us. She had an incredible case manager who now actually runs the program.

Meg Egan:

Delbie Delbie Calix is the woman who runs the program and she's incredible, and she worked with WPA and was able to have her case dismissed and then went through our employment program we have an employment program for and really works with women around soft skills and resume building and that kind of work in order to set them on a path to find meaningful work. And she, after her employment program, we actually offered her an internship and at the end of her internship she was offered employment with WPA. Her name is Merlin Mejia. She is passionate, she is thoughtful, she is really smart and totally committed and all of the things that you want in your colleague and to be on your team doing this work. And so it just to me. It illustrates the power that our work can have and, again, that ongoing impact that we can have in working with people.

Host:

It's like a full circle moment. Keep pursuing that and keep continuing with that perseverance. That's really inspirational. It's so hard to even just do those steps.

Meg Egan:

Yeah, if you're a young single mom just getting through navigating the system, that is incredibly complicated and designed in many ways to set people up to fail. And she figured it out on her own and is thriving and continues to learn and continues to grow and I find her incredibly inspiring and she's also just a joy to work with. It's really incredible.

Host:

I was wondering if you could tell me a bit more about your Justice Home program, because I did some research into it. It's really interesting, but for listeners who don't know what it is, could you maybe outline that and give some insights into that program?

Meg Egan:

Yeah. So again, it's our Alternative to Incarceration program and so we can accept people. This is a pretrial program, just to take a step back when people come into contact with the justice system and they are arraigned. There are a few different options for a judge. A judge can release someone on their own recognizance. They can release someone into an alternative to detention program or, in New York City, a supervised release program. Or they could release to an alternative to incarceration program. That usually is a little bit later in the process. Or they can set bail and if the person can post the bail they remain in the community, but if not, they're going to Rikers Island.

Meg Egan:

So our Justice Home program will work with women at any point. If they're released into an alternative to detention program, that's where they can begin their journey with Justice Home. And then we go back to court and they're mandated. The ATI program does require a court mandate. So you're mandated to the program and then we provide support.

Meg Egan:

So we'll meet with the woman, get a better sense of what's going on, start building a relationship and really hearing from her what she needs in that moment, whether it's housing or clinical care or employment or child care, help navigating benefits it doesn't matter what she needs.

Meg Egan:

We will then develop a case plan that's really about providing her with the support she needs and that's part of the court mandate. And so then we will also work with her and her defense attorney and the judge and help her navigate that process. And usually, you know, the mandates are a couple of years. It kind of depends on the judge, but usually it's a couple of years that they are with us and then you know, when they've completed their mandate assuming all has gone well then they will be discharged and the charges can be dismissed and from there then they can go into our community-based program which can provide ongoing support if that's what she needs. So it's a wonderful program to provide, I think, both support in sort of the whatever needs she may have, but also just the relationship support. In a challenging and scary time, just to have someone who has your back and is supporting you and helping you navigate this process can be really powerful.

Host:

Yeah, sounds like the model is really effective. And it's different, it's unique compared to others that I've heard of.

Meg Egan:

It is, I think there's more opportunity. One of the challenges, I think, in the spaces is the system is really designed for men, and so the responses are really designed for men, and so what we're trying to do is really design responses focused on women rather than just carving something out for women, really thinking about what do women need to be successful, and I think Justice Home does that. Our Justice Home program does that in a really, really powerful way.

Host:

Yeah, it's true. Yeah, systems are automatically often designed for men and not women, so it's really powerful that you even have a program like this and also just a platform that's been here for so long advocating for women. Speaking of projects, you have an upcoming project, the Rise right.

Meg Egan:

Yeah, so the Rise is actually open. We did a ribbon cutting in early May and the building is a mix of affordable and supportive housing. And then there's community space on the ground level and it's in Brownsville, brooklyn, and the building itself is beautiful. It was designed with a trauma-informed lens, it's a soft color palette, there's a lot of natural light, just soft surfaces. It's a really warm and welcoming physical environment.

Meg Egan:

And for the supportive housing piece, so WPA partnered with a women-owned development firm called Xenolith Partners and they've been incredible partners in building the rise. And we are partnering with the Osborne Association to provide the programming to the supportive housing units. So there are 72 total units. 47 of those 72 units are set aside for supportive housing. 37 of the 47 are dedicated to justice impacted women, and then the remaining 10 are dedicated to justice impacted men, and so women are moving in with their families. It's a mix of studio, one bedroom, two bedroom and three bedroom apartments and people are there as long as they want to be there.

Meg Egan:

This is permanent supportive housing, so it's not a situation where necessarily where they need to leave in some period of time. This is stable housing, safe and stable housing. And then our team, in partnership with the Aspern Association will provide people with the support they need. If that's employment support, other benefits, support again, clinical services, whatever people are identifying that they need, we will provide. And then we also will do community engagement for the community in the building as a whole and then the broader community.

Meg Egan:

So there are a few other community partners that are involved in the building as well, and so it's a really exciting project. We have staff working out of the building every day and I think this can be a model for WPA and also for the city, where we're really again really focused on safe and stable housing, specifically for women and their families. As I said earlier, housing is a critical piece of this, and permanent housing with the right supports, you know, gives women an opportunity women and their families, I should say an opportunity to really thrive. So we're incredibly excited about this project and what it means in this moment, but also what it means in the future.

Host:

Yeah, it sounds really impressive and I didn't even realize there was that many housing units that you've created. It's so hard for people to find long-term housing, I believe, so it's usually short-term as a resolution. This is also what's really unique about it.

Meg Egan:

Yeah, exactly, and the city provides housing vouchers so that covers a portion of their rent and then the state covers another portion. So this is again it provides people with both the housing stability and some financial stability to remain in that housing long-term.

Host:

You mentioned community engagement. What did you? Mean by that. Do you have activities or events that take place in the buildings?

Meg Egan:

Yeah, so the entire? Well, I shouldn't say the entire.

Meg Egan:

Most of the first floor of the building is actually community space, so we have offices there. Our participants from our other programs can come and meet with our teams there. There are a few other organizations that are in the building as well, and so there's an exercise room and so people can come in and, either from the building or from the community, can come in and take classes. We have already started to get requests for community meetings and other activities with our partners Brownsville community partners and other activities with our partners. Brownsville Community Partners and a couple of other organizations are in partnership with us, and so over time we will see more and more community programs, and our hope is that this is a hub for people in the community. We want to be really good neighbors, and part of that is opening our doors and offering things that are valuable to the community.

Host:

How have you measured the impact of this since it started? Have you noticed anything yourself?

Meg Egan:

Yeah, you know it's been a couple of months, so you know we'll see, but I can already see.

Meg Egan:

You know our residents, just you know it's hard to quantify this, but our residents having pride in their home means a lot.

Meg Egan:

And we have one resident, jamil, who actually spoke at our ribbon cutting and he's a trans man who worked with us at Bedford, which is one of the state prisons at Bedford, which is one of the state prisons. So that's how he became connected with WPA and learned about the building from our staff and has moved in and has gone through our employment programs and just has an incredible amount of pride in where he is living and what that means for his opportunities and his ability to thrive, and so he's looking for other programs that he can connect to in order to continue on his journey. He joined me for a meeting with the State Parole Board a few weeks ago and just talked about his experience and what he's experiencing now that he's in the community and so he's also finding his voice to advocate for change that can help him but also help others. So you know that's again it's hard to quantify, but that's a pretty incredible outcome in a couple months.

Host:

That was Meg Egan,CEO C C C C C of the Women's Prison Association, an organisation that's been redefining justice for women and LGBTQIA+ for nearly two centuries. Their work is a reminder that real change doesn't always make headlines, but it does change lives. But it does change lives. This conversation marks the beginning of our journey into the realities of incarceration and what it truly means to build justice from the ground up. We've heard about the personal stories that fuel the WPA's mission, stories shaped by struggle, survival and strength, but behind every individual experience lies a bigger system, one that criminalises poverty, punishes trauma and too often fails those most in need of support.

Host:

Next time, on Rebel Justice, we step back to look at the system itself. We'll talk housing policy and power and how change is being built into bricks and mortar, how funding and legislation can transform lives and what it really takes to move from reform to revolution. If part one was about who we fight for, part two is about how you've been listening to rebel justice. If you'd like to support our work and receive four digital editions and one print issue a year, subscribe to the view for. just£20 just. .. Make. ake to follow us on our social media. We're on instagram at the underscore view underscore magazines, and you can also find us on linkedin x and tiktok. If you'd like to reach out to us directly, you can email inquiries to us press@theviewmagazine.. at theviewmagazine. org. Please share this story.