E. 80: Part 1 - Mothers of the Filton 23 and the Misuse of Anti-Terrorism Legislation

What happens when two young university students decide they can no longer stand by while weapons made in Britain fuel a genocide? For Fatema Zainab and Zoe, both just barely in their twenties, the answer led them to a prison cell where they've remained for nine months – with no trial in sight until November.

The "Filton 18" case represents an unprecedented application of counter-terrorism powers against political activists in the UK. After Palestine Action protesters entered Elbit Systems' facility near Bristol to dismantle military equipment bound for Israel, they found themselves held in solitary confinement, interrogated under terrorism legislation, and treated like high-security threats despite having no previous convictions.

In this powerful episode, we hear from Clare and Sukaina, mothers who never imagined they'd become advocates for political prisoners in their own country. They share the devastating realities their daughters face: the Islamophobic treatment Fatema endured when her headscarf was forcibly removed, the psychological impact of isolation on Zoe's autism, and the bewildering experience of being denied bail despite meeting all the usual criteria.

Beyond the personal toll, the case raises alarming questions about civil liberties in Britain. UN experts have condemned the treatment as "enforced disappearance," while a Guardian investigation revealed troubling connections between the prosecution and the Israeli embassy. As one mother puts it: "This isn't just about the Filton 18. This is a moment in history where everyone needs to pay attention to the erosion of our rights to protest."

Credits

Guests: Clare Rogers & Sukaina Rajwani

Soundtrack: Particles (Revo Main Version) by [Coma-Media] 

Producer: Charlotte Janes

Reading from Fatema: https://www.threadings.io/youve-been-traumatized-into-hating/

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**this episode was recorded prior to the Filton 18 becoming the Filton 24**

Chapters

• 0:00 Fatema Zainab's Poem
• 1:30 Introducing the Filton 18 Case
• 3:07 Meet Fatima Zainab and Zoe
• 7:36 Prison Conditions and Treatment
• 13:02 Finding Strength Behind Bars
• 17:42 Community Support and Advocacy
• 23:34 Legal Battles and Counterterrorism Powers
• 31:27 Political Interference in the Case
• 39:02 Impact on Free Speech and Protest
• 45:37 Final Messages and Hopes

Transcript

Fatema Zainab: 0:00

This poem is dedicated to my fellow political prisoners, past, present, and future, and everyone who acts out of hope because they want a better world. Thank you for making and remaking this world into something a little bit softer and a little bit brighter. This existence of ours is defined by hope. This, I mean, is ours. Our children of second languages and of boats and of hungry-eyed immigrants in search of a better world, of ravaged lands, of stolen earth, of starved mouths, of exiles, and of their boots and our grounds. This existence in this world we are building for ourselves is defined by hope, defined as in learning and teaching, in revolutionary love, in the cradle of grief, in pure undiluted wanting within that which is designed to condemn, in birth, in life, in death. Do you see this existence of ours, defined by hope? This existence that precedes this world we are building out of unrelenting hope, this world I see of whole selves, not subsumed by this beast we find ourselves in, where our nourishment is not defined by exploitation, where our love is not defined by grief and our hatred is not defined by fear. This world I see from inside my prison cell, that is almost tangible enough to touch, remade out of hope.

Host: 1:23

You're listening to Rebel Justice, the podcast from The View Magazine. When we think about justice, we think about it as an abstract, something that happens to someone else, somewhere else. But justice and the law regulate every aspect of our interactions with each other, with organisations, and with the government. We never think about it until it impacts our lives, or those of someone close. Our guests are women with lived experience of the justice system, whether as victims or women who have committed crimes, people at the forefront of civic action who put their lives on the line to demand a better world. We ask them to share their insight into how we might repair a broken and harmful system with humanity and dignity. We also speak with people who are in the heart of the justice system, creating important change, judges, barristers, human rights campaigners, mental health advocates, artists, and healers. In August 2024, six Palestine Action activists drove a former prison van into the Filton facility of Elbit Systems, a major site for weapons research, development, and manufacturing near Bristol in England. Once inside, they dismantled and destroyed military equipment including quadcopter drones. Their target, Elbit Systems UK, is the British subsidiary of Israel's largest weapons manufacturer. Elbit supplies 85% of the land-based equipment used by the Israeli military and 85% of the drones deployed by its air force, equipment frequently described as "battle-tested in Gaza and the West Bank". Following the action, the six activists were arrested on site. Over the following days, four more were arrested across the UK by British counter-terrorism police. All ten were remanded in custody, detained without charge for nearly a week and interrogated under anti-terror legislation. Then, in November, more raids followed. Eight additional activists were arrested and also held under terrorism powers, bringing the total number of people jailed and prosecuted for the Filton action to 18. These individuals' crimes are not terrorism-related. They are criminal damage, aggravated burglary and violent disorder. In this episode, we speak with Clare and Sukaina, the mothers of Fatema Zainab and Zoe, two of the young women among the Filton 18. This interview was recorded prior to the prescription of Palestine Action as a terrorist organisation. Clare and Sukaina share the heartbreaking realities their daughters, just 20 and 21 years old, have faced in prison, and the broader legal and political implications of this unprecedented case. Thank you so much for being here with us. From the view, we understand that these are difficult times. So thank you so much for wanting to share your story. I would like to start by asking you to share with us a little bit about how Zoe and Fatema are not just as defendants, but as your daughters and as people.

Sukaina Rajwani: 4:50

Thank you for having us on your episode today. We really appreciate the opportunity to share our daughter's stories in the Filton 18's case with the audience. So in terms of Fatema Zainab, she's a 20-year-old young lady feeling very, very passionately about social justice. And when the genocide started in October 2023, as a family, we went on marches and protests every Saturday. And then there came a point where she felt really frustrated and helpless that, you know, all this is not helping, their voices are not being heard. And I believe this is when she decided to take direct action. She's been in remand for the past nine months in prison. It's quite a sad state of affairs, actually. She would have been graduating this summer in her film and media studies had she not been in prison. So she's had to sit out her last year of university. We've deferred this. We'll have to defer it further.

Clare Rogers: 6:21

It's so similar to what Sukaina has said. I mean, I think for all of these people, many of them very young people in prison right now, these political prisoners, they are people who have a very, very strong moral compasses. And Zoe, I would say the same about her, like social justice is her defining quality. And she was in despair about the situation. And like Sukaina said about Fatema Zainab, she got to the point where she was saying the marches just aren't working. And she started talking about it. about direct action. She explained to me that direct action is about not asking the government to do something, but it's doing something for the government and accepting the consequences. And she clearly felt that that was the way to go. And it just strikes me whenever I talk to anyone who's taken action with Palestine Action, the courage and the love and the self-sacrifice. You hear people saying, well, I knew that I might go to prison, but I would rather do that than hear about another child being killed and know that I hadn't acted. And that's true of our two daughters, definitely. I think the difference with Zoe compared to Fatema is that she's actually very anxious. She suffered from social anxiety for a long time. So this courage is just all the more incredible to me. She's autistic and she found the first couple of months in prison very, very hard because they've been treated like high security prisoners from the start. They've been treated effectively like terrorists. But that meant when they were first admitted to Bronzefield in Surrey that they had a non-association order put on them, which meant that they couldn't talk to their co-defendants. And because of that, they were really restricted in their visits, in where they were placed in the prison. And Zoe was kept in the induction wing for the first two months. That's a place where you're meant to spend a few days and then you join the main prison. She was kept there, unable to make any friends because people were just passing through and that affected her mental health very, very badly. It's better now, but the restrictions put on them has just been something we've had to fight all the time. And it's exhausting.

Host: 8:39

Staying on what you just said about the conditions that they're being held under, what have you heard from them directly? Are they able to communicate with you? And how have they been treated emotionally, physically and psychologically?

Sukaina Rajwani: 8:51

Initially, when they were arrested... They were rearrested within 24 hours under the Terrorism Act, which allowed the state further powers to keep them in solitary confinement. So they were kept in solitary confinement, interrogated day and night for up to seven days, six days. She didn't have contact with her loved ones. I didn't speak with Fatema Zainab until two weeks into her arrest, and I wasn't able to visit her until three weeks after she was arrested. So this was all due to the counter-terror powers that the state was using on them. And then on top of this, when we applied for bail for both Fatema Zainab and Zoe, and as we've seen with the other bail applications that have been rejected recently, their bail was rejected. And again, you know, we feel that the judge is spooked with the counterterror link that they have on their case. So just because of these counterterror powers, we just feel that these are being used against them. You know, they're aggravating their conditions in prison. And on top of this, because Fatema Zainab is very much visibly a Muslim, she wears a headscarf. She's experienced a lot of Islamophobia in prison as well. which has affected her mental well-being and her health, I would say. At the point of arrest, her headscarf was ripped off when they were taking the mug shots at prison. Again, she wasn't allowed her headscarf. She had a bandana on underneath her headscarf, which was also removed. So these are all, I would say, effects of Islamophobia that Fatema Zainab's been going through, even in terms of just on the same note with her hijab and her headscarf, the officers, because they've been interrogated day and night throughout their solitary confinement, the officers would just barge into their cells, not allowing Fatema Zainab enough time to, you know, or the privacy to put on her headscarf. So she had to sort of sleep with her headscarf on just because anyone could walk in at any point in time. But after that, you know, whilst on remand in prison, while Yes, the conditions have improved slightly in terms of us having the capacity to visit and having regular phone calls with them. Just because of this strange known association order that's been placed on them, our visits are limited in terms of other prisoners' visits and access to visits for all of the 18.

Host: 11:39

That's awful to hear. I'm so sorry. Has Zoe had a similar experience? Because I would say this definitely raises some questions about how people who are kept in custody are being treated under English legislation.

Clare Rogers: 11:56

To be honest, just going to the actual fact that they are in prison is an abuse of the law, we believe. So neither Fatema Zainab nor Zoe have had any previous convictions. They can all produce loads of character references. Their families can provide security. There was absolutely no reason why they should have been refused bail other than the terrorist link. It's such an abuse. So even the fact that they were... kept under the Terrorism Act in the first place in that awful six days of isolation where they had no way of contacting us. They were effectively disappeared from their families. No one would have known if it hadn't been for Palestine Action finding out for us. So the fact that they were blanket refusal of bail for people who wouldn't normally be refused bail, all of that is part of the abuse of the counter-terror powers that have been flagged up by UN experts who wrote a letter to the government. It's just, you know, and you look at people getting bail. So the people, Iranians who were arrested, suspected of a terror plot, you know, I don't know the details, but they were given bail - about people charged with terrible things being given bail. So why are our two young daughters, who have got nothing on their records, not being allowed out until their trial, bearing in mind that the trial, their trial, isn't until November, and they will have been in prison for 15 months before it even starts? It's just insane. And their lives are slipping away. So Zoe would have been starting her first year at university, which had already been deferred because she took longer to get her qualifications and she worked very hard for them. She should be in her first year now. And now she doesn't know if she will ever be able to take up that place.

Host: 13:48

And after eight months now of being in prison and being treated like this, how are they coping day by day and how are they managing?

Sukaina Rajwani: 13:59

In terms of Fatema Zainab, I would say that Fatema Zainab really does give me a lot of strength. If not for her, I wouldn't know what to do. But I would like to say that she has been keeping quite strong inside. And I think this inner peace, this inner strength comes with knowing that you're on the right side of history, that you've done the right thing, that you've stood up for the right cause. And we know from experience that the fight for justice is always hard. It requires patience, a lot of sacrifice. And we see this with Fatema Zainab, with Zoe, with the rest of the Filton 18, that they've given up so much. They've given up their hopes, their dreams, their careers, just to stand for the oppressed people.

Clare Rogers: 14:51

I would say similar about Zoe. I think she's drawn a lot of strength. She said, I feel free internally. And I've heard other Palestinian Activists saying the same thing. They know that they just didn't sit on their hands and do nothing. They know that they took action. And it's when they're in prison or when then that first night in the police station cell that they feel this sense of freedom. And it's just insane that they are the ones in prison when literally what they were doing was addressing a war crime. We should not be exporting arms to Israel. And we already knew that. And we've got more revelations now about 160,000 separate items of weapons going to Israel. That is happening against our laws, against international laws. Ministers who approve that should be in prison. And instead, it's these young, brave, self-sacrificing people who tried to uphold those laws who are in prison.

Host: 15:48

And how would you say this awful story and they're in prison

Sukaina Rajwani: 15:59

On that note, I'd like to just, you know, say something that's been in my heart, in my mind, you know, ever since Fatema Zainab's been sent to prison. You know, the individuals, the people that have stood up, that have risen for Fatema Zainab, for Zoe, for the Filton 18, they've come from a diverse range of backgrounds. They've come from different walks of life. They've given us love and support. They've been there for us. They've amplified their voices. They've given us platforms to raise awareness. And in terms of community, we've built a whole new community of love and support around us. which just comes from that common love for the people of Palestine for recognizing their rights to liberation and freedom. And every time I think about it and I reflect about it, I am taken aback. I'm awestruck by all this love and support that we've received, you know, from places that we didn't expect from, you know, offering all sorts of help, whether it's emotional help, whether it's mental help, whether it's financial help, you know, just everything. going above and beyond for our girls.

Clare Rogers: 17:14

It has been amazing. As a community, we call ourselves the Filton 18 family and friends. You know how you bond deeply in traumatic situations. I think we've definitely done that. But there's just a quality to these family and friends in particular. I guess they're all people who've raised children or have siblings who are really focused on justice. And they have that quality as well. There was a moment outside the Old Bailey. We had a hearing at the end of March. And someone was wrongfully arrested by the police, actually very violently arrested and bundled into the police van. And loads of people stood in front of the van with their arms linked so the police couldn't take him away. And the person right in front of them was Bonnie, who is Ian Sanders' mother, one of the Filton 18s. She's 72 and she sat there on the road in front of the police holding a placard with her son's face on it. And that was just such a beautiful expression of what these people, this community we've become part of, are all about. They will put themselves between the victims and the oppressors. And that man was released by the police. After an hour they gave up and let him go. So it was a little victory for us there to show that you can stand against oppression, you can stand against injustice. And we hope that was a little hint of what's to come. The whole time she was looking up at the gold statue on top of the old Bailey of lady justice. And she was saying to herself, justice is coming. And we just have to cling to that.

Host: 18:50

Well, it's lovely to hear that you're receiving the attention and the support that this case deserves. And with all this big media and social reaction, how are you coping and how has your lives as mothers and now as advocates changed?

Sukaina Rajwani: 19:05

For myself, this is all outside my comfort zone. I would never have thought in a million years that I would be going out and about advocating for Fatema Zainab. You know, ever since she got arrested, her cause has become my cause. I've become a mini-activist in myself, and I would never have thought that I'd have the courage or the strength to do that. Yeah, I have. I've found it somehow, you know, and I strongly believe that when God puts you through something like this, He gives you the strength and the courage to deal with it, to stand up to it. Yeah, it's been a life-changing experience, this journey that we've been on for the past... nine months so far. It's changed me as a person. It's changed my views, my worldview. And hopefully it's made me a better person.

Clare Rogers: 19:59

Sukaina is awesome. She keeps saying, "oh, I can't talk to this crowd or on this podcast or in this interview". And then she just smashes it out of the park. So it's been amazing to watch that. I had a campaigning background, so it was kind of easier for me to step into that space. But it's still been a it has been absolutely life changing. I was reflecting on this about how my, you know, I feel like I'm almost on a sort of military campaign, just in the sense that, although I'm very anti-military, just in the sense that my life is so restricted. My every day is very kind of regimented because, you know, I've got so much to do to help with the Filton 18 campaign. I've got a call from Zoe's that's usually an hour long every day. It takes six or seven hours out of my weekend to go and visit her in Surrey. I don't have a car or public transport. It's really changed what I can do and how I can spend my time. And yet I've been reflecting on it and just thinking, I count it a privilege. You know, if this is what it takes to stand against genocide and to stand alongside someone as brave as my daughter, then I count it a privilege. And, you know, I'm up for this fight and I'll give everything to it.

Host: 21:12

And where do you find the strength to still fight for it and to go through all of that?

Sukaina Rajwani: 21:17

Fatema Zainab really does give me strength. I believe that, you know, we complement each other. Obviously, there are times when she is down and I have to be the one to, you know... give her strength, talk about what's happening, how we can fight this together, how there is light at the end of the tunnel. So it is a two-way street, if I can say that. Fatema Zainab gives me strength when I am doubting myself whether I can do this or whether I can go on that show. So I just feel, I really do feel strongly that with this challenge that we've faced. You know, the strength has come. It's a divine God-given gift that I didn't realize I had. You know, looking back, Like I said, nine months ago, I wouldn't have thought I had the capacity to do what I am doing now. And just to reiterate what Clare said, you know, it is really, really draining. There is so much going on, you know, in terms of my younger daughter. I have to make sure that I give her time. I give her the attention that she needs. She's only 10 years old. And then visiting Fatema Zainab, that takes a lot out of us as well because it's ... it's not near. We drive when we go to see her. So it's a good one and a half hour back and forth. And then the visits that she tries to book us, she always tries to get us a two-hour slot just so that we can maximize the time we have together as a family. And so it does take a lot out of us. And then obviously working, community, and we continue to march. We're not going to lose hope. We're not going to sit down and not march. We go to these march and if you add everything up, The strength is just, I would say, supernatural.

Clare Rogers: 23:18

I feel the same way, to be honest. So I have a faith as well. And just before, well, there was a kind of eight-month period before Zoe was arrested when I had post-viral fatigue. It was like chronic fatigue, and it was really debilitating. And in that time, I went through a sort of spiritual growth spurt where I just changed the way that I lived. I gave more time to prayer and meditation. And in that time I had a growing sense of calling to something to do with justice. And I had no idea what it was. And then I went away with a friend on a weekend away together. And she insisted, she's got a very strong faith for healing, and she insisted on praying for me for healing. And I was healed. The fatigue just left me and never came back. And three days later Zoe was arrested. So that has kind of helped me to go, okay, I've, you know, I am, I'm getting this divine strength and I've learned to sort of pace myself to keep up that rhythm of prayer and reflection. I'd have a proper day off once a week where I completely rest and do things I enjoy. And that's kind of sustained me as well as, yeah, talking to Zoe and talking to my faith community, talking to the Filton 18 community. All of that is keeping me going.

Host: 24:37

Thank you so much for sharing that. And if we could now turn to the legal side of things. As you've both said before, Zoe, Fatema Zainab and others have been denied bail, and held for months without trial. What do you make of that decision? And what have lawyers said about justification?

Sukaina Rajwani: 24:55

First of all, I'd like to point out that the very fact that they've been held on remand is unjust. They shouldn't be. They're both eligible for bail. They don't have any previous convictions. We've put down hefty security amounts. We've got good character references. They're both university students. They shouldn't be held in remand. In terms of their arrest, I would say that my experience with the criminal justice system it's come across as a very manipulative and distorted version of the state in such a way that it protects their narrative. And especially if you don't agree with their narrative, then you're put behind bars. It doesn't show up as being very fair and just. And if you look at how broken the system is in terms of them being held on remand till their trial, you know, without having gotten bail, they're going to be in prison for 15 months before their trial starts and that shows the extent of how the system is broken, how You know, in spite of being a developed country and not expecting all these hurdles that we've come across in terms of the democratic system, the justice system and all that, it just gives you food for thought. You know, you would expect the rights and freedoms to be protected in the United Kingdom. What Clare spoke about, the UN has called their initial period, you know, when they were in solitary confinement as enforced disappearance. You wouldn't expect that in a democracy, you know, of two young 20, 21-year-old young girls, you know. This is something you'd expect in a dictatorship. And this is all just to protect a genocidal state, protect... war criminals with an ICJ arrest warrants on their names, you know, so it doesn't give me much faith in the system, to be honest.

Clare Rogers: 26:59

And it feels like it's getting worse. I mean, this has been my experience just watching events unfold. And it feels like actually the Filton 18 are right at the centre, they're right at the eye of the storm, because using counter-terror powers against them as activists was completely unprecedented. It was like they were trying, what can we do to destroy Palestine action. The government was thinking, how can we defend our allies, the Israelis? And we know there have been communications between the Israeli embassy and the attorney general. Who is responsible for the Crown Prosecution Service? You know, we know these conversations are going on. So it was like, what can we do to crush these people? And let's try counter-terrorism. And having applied it to the Filton 18, they've also applied it now to a group known as the Instro 10, who are another group of Palestine actionists. So it's becoming something that's outrageous and unprecedented and completely unjust, is in danger of becoming the norm And this is what we really have to fight against. And we're really trying to flag up the danger of Britain becoming a police state. There's no other way of putting it. These are terrifying... decisions that our government is taking. And obviously, it's not just our kids. We're seeing the criminalisation of process, of peaceful process. It's all a very worrying state of affairs. And it's great that the UN experts have written this letter, have flagged it up, have talked about enforced disappearances. But you just, like Sukaina said, you don't expect to see that in Britain. I've got a friend who, for 20 years, wrote a lot of letters for Amnesty international. And now she's writing to Zoe and she said, I never thought I'd be writing to a political prisoner in my own country. It just blows our minds.

Host: 28:56

As you mentioned, prosecutors have suggested that there's a terrorism connection and the prosecution is being led by the anti-terrorism police. So... What do you think of this and how was the moment of hearing that in court?

Sukaina Rajwani: 29:09

You know, we've seen a live stream genocide. We've seen inhumane killings, executions, war crimes after war crimes. We've lost count of all of these. These are numbering in the thousands now. What we see is that these are all brushed under the carpet by the so-called Western democracies and the mainstream Western media. And in that situation, I mean, what can we really expect from the state, from the government in the case right now, from the prosecution, from the CPS? There's been political interference in the case. We've seen how the attorney general's office has shifted the context of the CPS and the counter-terror police with the Israeli embassy. Why would they need this information? And why would the Attorney General's office even volunteer this information? The CPS is supposed to be an independent body. This gives us chills just thinking about all these external political interferences in their case. And then even from the UN report, just to quote from the UN report, it states that the UK police have exercised significant So all this combined, you know, It all boils down to, as Claire said before, protecting a foreign entity above respecting international law. And when you think about the bigger picture and how the United Kingdom is ignoring international law, how the United Kingdom is ignoring the Genocide Convention, what hope does it give us for Fatema Zainab and Zoe in the Filton 18's case?

Clare Rogers: 31:10

It's got very real consequences for them because if they are found guilty, guilty, if they get convicted of any of their charges, the terrorism connection can then be applied to sentencing. And this is deeply worrying for two reasons. One is that the terrorism connection is decided separately. It's not decided in front of a jury. It's just at the judge's discretion to say there is a terrorism connection. And the other is that if it is applied at sentencing, it could double their sentences effectively. because they won't get that early release that you could have if it was an ordinary eviction. And it could lengthen even the actual sentence itself. So it's deeply unfair, deeply worrying, and it just shouldn't be happening.

Sukaina Rajwani: 31:56

And to add on to that, where have you heard that the judge can deny lawful defences to be used in trial, especially the defence of necessity? It just shows how biased the system is against them, against your Palestinian action activists against actionists even before the trial starts. They're portrayed as regular criminals rather than people of conscience. And this puts the defendants at a disadvantage, showing them to be criminals even before the trial has started, even before they've been proven guilty. So it's just a whole mess of the British system, I would say.

Host: 32:38

So just to expand on something that you just said and to explain it to our audience, recently a report by The Guardian revealed that the Attorney General's Office shared details of UK-based Palestine activists, including those of Filton 18, with Israeli officials. And this obviously raises serious questions about foreign influence on UK legal proceedings. So given that, I want to ask, do you believe foreign influence, and particularly that from Israel, has played a role in how this case is being treated and how it's being perceived by the media and so how?

Sukaina Rajwani: 33:14

The political interference, it came to light that it happened As soon as the first batch of arrests, the Filton 6, as they were known at that point, were arrested, and then there were a further four arrests, making them Filton 10. In August of 2024, just after these arrests, there were reports of the information being shared by the Attorney General's Office with Israeli Embassy. And so this brings about the question, again, That I sort of referred to earlier, that why would they need this information at that point? And it's so close in time that it just, it's just so obvious that there is political interference in their case, especially politically. looking at the wider picture and the timeframe, and also taking into account that before this, there has never ever been terror connection links or terrorism charges or the counter-terror police leading pro-Palestine protest investigation. So all of this just ties into the fact that the political interference has had an effect on ongoing Filton 18 case. Just to say that Because of that and because of the abuse in process, you know, we're calling for the case to be dropped because the CPS should be an independent body. They should not be influenced by any external factors. And this gross interference just shows how wildly the whole process has been abused.

Clare Rogers: 34:53

It's just, it's really sinister. And it's all about that connection with Israel. And we, you know, we know that. So this meeting that happened between the Israeli embassy and the Attorney General's office, that was shortly before they banned certain licenses, export licenses of arms to Israel. And it was like, you know, it was a tiny percentage that they banned. And it felt like a sort of token attempt to say, look, we're not exporting arms to Israel, when as we know, they carried on. exporting deadly weapons to Israel, including drones, from the factory that our children took action against. We know that they have exported from there to Israel. So it just seems very obvious that they've had this meeting, this cosy meeting, where probably they were saying, OK, we're going to have to make a bit of a show of banning some export licences, but don't worry, we are coming for Palestine action and we will crush them. That's what I imagine was the content of that meeting. And I could be wrong, but obviously it's much too cosy, much too prior given to the relationship with Israel and not with our own citizens.

Host: 36:01

And how do you think these developments align or clash with what the UK says about its commitment to human rights?

Sukaina Rajwani: 36:10

I would say at this point, with all the experiences that I've had the past nine months, I find it hard to believe anymore that that the United Kingdom does actually promote any human rights, especially with the genocide that's going on in Palestine, with the sufferings that we see, the large scale of suffering that is livestreamed on our screens. And then to turn a blind eye to that, to justify it, it just doesn't sit with me anymore.

Clare Rogers: 36:45

It's really, it's just, it repulses me. I mean, I just feel sick to my stomach when I think about the way they've just... like in full knowledge, broken their own laws. So I was talking to someone the other day, a retired British ambassador, and he was saying that when he was an ambassador, if he witnessed this export of arms to countries that have such an obvious abuse of human rights going on, committing genocide, he would have resigned. You know, this is no respect to human rights. This is about profits and about politics and about power. And I don't know how Keir Starmer, how David Lammy, how the rest of them sleep at night, knowing that they are allies with a genocide. It just boggles my mind. So they're not concerned about the human rights of the Palestinian civilians who are being killed in such large numbers and being starved, and they're not interested in the human rights of their own citizens who've taken it upon themselves to try and uphold the international laws that this government is breaking.

Host: 37:49

And staying with this topic of human rights, what do you think this case means for the future of freedom of speech and freedom of protest, and especially for young people?

Sukaina Rajwani: 38:00

The young people, I would say, they're continuing to protest, they're continuing to stand their ground. Of course, the state is trying to set a precedent with the way they're intimidating The public with the Filton 18 case, with other arrests that have been made recently, whether you look at Sarah Wilkinson's arrest, Asa Winslay's raid, Richard Medhurst, all these ongoing situations, you know, arrests all under counter-terror powers. It does bring us into a new era, a dark era, you know, if I may say so, that we haven't experienced before, that we wouldn't expect from the United Kingdom. And the right to protest, the right to free speech is being clamped down on, especially as we see if, you know, the narrative of the protests, you know, is not something that is agreeable to the state. And we've seen this repeatedly more and more. You know, it's not being hidden anymore. There's massive police presence in the protests. It's just the state setting a new precedent, trying to scare people, trying to shut down voices that call for a ceasefire of that call for a free Palestine. And it is scary. It is scary looking at where we're going, honestly. As Claire mentioned before, that we're moving into a police state, and it's so obvious. to everyone that's looking and watching and observing.

Clare Rogers: 39:30

The slightly hopeful side of all this is that it's such an overreach by the state. It's so shocking. And I really feel it's kind of on us as the Filton 18 supporters to try and get that message out. This isn't just about the Filton 18. This is a moment in history where everyone needs to pay attention to what is happening and the erosion of those rights, the abuse of our human rights, our right to protest. You know, we really, really have to sound the alarm here. And that's what we've been trying to do. But the other thing I would say is it's not having the effect that the government would like it to. If you look at Palestine Action as an example, their recruitment has just gone up. People are banging on the door saying, I want to act because they can see that it's working. And these are people, you know, they can see. So many people have told me that they were inspired by the Filton 18 and then they went on to take action themselves. And they knew exactly what the cost was, what the risk was, but they've done it anyway. And they can see the results. They can see that PowerSign Action has succeeded in closing down factories and cutting the profits of factories and damaging the reputation, especially of Albert Systems, which is Israel's largest weapons supplier, and which I didn't know until Zoe took action that existed. I didn't know that it was making these deadly weapons on British soil. You know, that's my taxpayer money going to make these weapons. And I think the more that they're repressed and the more it comes out that this is taking place, the more bad press that is for both the government and for weapons manufacturers.

Host: 41:10

And as you said, with this being a very big moment in history. Are there any politicians or groups standing with you in what we could say is the right side of history?

Sukaina Rajwani: 41:20

We have been trying to engage our MPs. We've been trying to engage politicians, trying to sort of spread awareness as to what's happening with the Filton 18 and how the They can help with the positions that they hold in Parliament and as people representing our loved ones. So we are hopeful. We're giving it our best. And we do have faith in humanity. And on that note, I know this is not a related question, but just something that I wanted to say. Even in terms of the trial, we have faith that the jury, who are just a bunch of normal people, will see through the corruption and this facade that's been happening, you know, with the Filton, surrounding the Filton 18 case. And, you know, they'd be able to come to the right verdict. So, yes, there is hope for humanity, for people. And we are pushing our MPs and the politicians, especially those that we know have taken a stand and have spoken out.

Clare Rogers: 42:31

Yeah, we need to give a shout out really to John McDonnell, MP. He used to be a Labour shadow chancellor, I think, and is now independent. He's been fearless. He's really, you know, he's listened to us. He's stood up and made statements about the Filtern 18. And there are a few MPs like him who are doing their best to take this forward. And one thing we're hoping to see with their help is a change to the legislation around the use of the Terrorism Act, because it's been known since 2018 2013 that there's something very wrong with the UK drafting of terrorism law in that it doesn't define terrorism in line with international standards and basically terrorism can be applied to something as little as damaging property whereas it should be a much much higher bar to qualify as terrorism we know that that's existing and now we're really pushing for that to get changed and to define terrorism properly so that's just one of the things that the MPs can help us with.

Host: 43:30

And as my last question. If Zoe and Fatema Zainab could send the message to the public right now, what do you think they would say?

Sukaina Rajwani: 43:41

So, I think that's an easy one for me because I've been asked this before and I've asked Fatema Zainab as well, that if there is something that you want to say to anyone who's listening, what would you like to say? And one thing that she's always come back with is, you know, tell everyone that they must read and that reading is so, so important. If there's one thing I'd like to tell everyone is that you must read, read, read. And then she signposts anyone who visits her or who, you know, asks me or asks her through me that what should they start off reading. And there is this essay that she always signposts to. It's called You've Been Traumatized Into Hating Reading and It Makes You Easier To Oppress. And this essay is written by someone called Ismatu Gwendolyn. And you can find it online. She's been telling me that I must read as well. It's called Your Silence Will Not Protect You by Audre Lorde. And it talks about how, you know, we're so scared to raise a voice, to talk about anything. But then we're next in line and our silence is not going to protect us. So we need to shout from the rooftops and we need to take action. You know, at the crux of it, that's Fatima Zainab's message that you need to, not you, we all need to read and we need to be informed. We need to know history. We need to know how history and present times are intertwined. And, you know, we need to know British history and how it's linked to present day going ons. So, yeah, that's Fatema Zainab's message to the world.

Clare Rogers: 45:44

I'm so pleased that Zoe and Fatema Zainab have met because they are peas in a pod. Zoe's read about 100 books since she's been in Bronzefield. She's just a sort of reading machine and she's educated me on this whole issue she's got me reading things and online and books and so on which I wouldn't have done otherwise and I haven't got something ready as what she would say to the world because I haven't thought to ask her that question but I know she is just probably it would be free Palestine that would be her main message and when I talk to her she always wants to know she's like mum I'm only getting mainstream media in here what is happening tell me what is happening and she's asking constantly about the two families that I've been supporting trying to help a little bit financially who are both in Gaza and so she's always asking about them and I think basically she and Fatema Zainab and the others when they get out they are going to just change the world because they're constantly thinking how can we make the world a better place, what would be fairer I think they've concluded that prisons are not a good idea so how do we change the system and what is true democracy and what political systems work so I think she would probably say something similar to Fasuna Zainab is you know educate yourself don't be complacent hope for a better world a better world is possible and on a quiet day you can hear her breathing probably something like that

Host: 47:06

Well thank you so much to the both of you for being here with us today and for sharing your story

Clare Rogers: 47:13

Thank you, thanks for having us

Host: 47:17

In part two of this series, we'll take a closer look at the UK Government's recent prescription of Palestine Action as a terrorist organisation, a move that has sent shockwaves through activist and legal communities. We'll hear from Members of Parliament, human rights lawyers and academics about what this designation means for the right to protest, for civil liberties in the UK and for those still facing prosecution, like the Filton 18. Is this a turning point in the criminalisation of dissent? And what does it say about who is and isn't allowed to resist state violence? That's next in part two. You've been listening to Rebel Justice. If you'd like to support our work and receive four digital editions and one print issue a year, subscribe to The View magazine for just £20. Make sure to follow us on our social media. We're on Instagram @the_view _magazines. And you can also find us on LinkedIn, X and TikTok. For any media inquiries, please email press @theviewmagazine.org. Please share this story.