Rebel Justice - changing the way you see justice
What is justice? Who does it serve? Why should you care?
When we think about justice, we think about it as an abstract, something that happens to someone else, somewhere else. Bad people. But justice and the law regulate every aspect of our interactions with each other, with organisations, with the government.
We never think about it until it impacts our lives, or that of someone close.
News, views and trues from The View Magazine, a social justice and campaigning platform for the rights of women in the justice system.
Our guests are women with lived experience of the justice system whether as victims or women who have committed crimes; people at the forefront of civic action who put their lives on the line to demand a better world such as maligned climate justice campaigners.
We ask them to share their insight into how we might repair a broken and harmful system, with humanity and dignity.
We also speak with people who are in the heart of of the justice system creating important change, climate activists, judges, barristers, human rights campaigners, mental health advocates, artists and healers.
The View believes that we can rebuild lives with hope, and successfully reintegrate people who have caused harm or been harmed, through the restoring nature of art and creativity, open dialogue and - love.
Rebel Justice - changing the way you see justice
E. 73. Zainab Salbi: The Story of Daughters for Earth - When Care becomes Climate Revolution
In the second installment of a two-part conversation, Rebel Justice speaks with Zainab Salbi — humanitarian, author, survivor, and founder of Daughters for Earth. What happens when women lead environmental restoration efforts?
Zainab Salbi and host Anna Shapiro journey through a radical reimagining of climate action rooted in care, connection, and the transformative power of small actions.
Zainab shares the story behind Daughters for Earth, her philanthropic fund supporting women on the frontlines of addressing climate change and biodiversity loss. Drawing inspiration from the African fable of the Hummingbird Effect—where a tiny bird fights a forest fire one drop at a time—she reveals how this approach has already supported 200 women-led initiatives across 50 countries in just three years, protecting millions of acres and thousands of species.
Her perspective expands our understanding of activism itself, emphasizing that lawyers negotiating environmental regulations, journalists covering climate issues, and spiritual leaders fostering earth connections are all vital parts of the same ecosystem of change.
This episode offers not just hope but practical wisdom for reconnecting with nature, each other, and ourselves as the foundation for lasting climate justice.
Learn more at daughtersforearth.org
Credits
Guest: Zainab Salbi
Host: Anna Shapiro
Producer: Maile Monds
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Welcome to the View magazine's Rebel Justice podcast. The View is the only platform by and for women in the justice system. We want you to think about what justice really means, who it serves and who it leaves behind. This is episode 73, part 2 of our conversation with global activist, author and founder of Daughters for Earth, zainab Salbi. In this episode, we explore a powerful question Can care be a form of climate action? She opens up about how burnout prompted her to reconnect with nature and inspired a new mission supporting woman-led climate solutions rooted in healing and restoration. It's a hopeful, heartwarming episode about healing from war, from disconnection and from environmental harm. We hope you enjoy.
Zainab Salbi:Well Daughters for Earth is a philanthropic fund that supports women on the front lines of addressing climate change and biodiversity loss. It also celebrates the women. We turn them into graphic novels, turn their stories based on the hummingbirds effect story, and then we celebrate their work. We give feedback to the readers or to the supporters of why their work is actually important.
Zainab Salbi:Not many people know that protecting mangroves is part of climate change solutions, that protecting wild animals is part of climate change solutions, that protecting these endangered species is part of climate change. Protecting these endangered species is part of planetary. Not many people know that rewilding your ground, your lawn, not putting any pesticides in it, is part of planetary solution. That means basics, that if you dig deep and you're studying it, you'll learn that these are basics, but on a mass mainstream level not many people know that these are solutions.
Zainab Salbi:So we find the women, we support them financially.
Zainab Salbi:We then turn their stories into graphic novels that everyone can get, virtually by just going to daughtersforearthorg and not only reading the story in an engaging way, but learning these scientific tips and getting tips of what can you do in your own personal life to be able to be part of the solution. So and I'll end with you know the whole thing that we base Daughters for Earth story on, which is an African fable called the Hummingbird Effect, which is about a forest fire which took over the fire and the animals panicked and did not know what to do, except for a tiny hummingbird. She rushed to the local river, she took a drop of water and she rushed to the fire and dropped it on top of the fire and kept on going back and forth fiercely. The other animals looked at her and criticizing her and saying but you're just a small drop, a small hummingbird, you're a small beak, you can never turn off the fire with that. And she looked at them and said but I'm doing everything I can to turn off the fire, why don't you join me?
Zainab Salbi:And with that she inspired all the animals to join in their own drops of water. You carry whatever you can, and surely they did turn off the fire. And I look at the story. We all at Daughters for Earth look at the story and say we all are the hummingbirds. You know, we don't have to wait for someone to invent some technology to save. Technology is not going to save us. Out of that we already have the solutions right. And the solution takes will, takes money takes, willpower takes political change takes, but but ultimately it really takes all of us to change.
Zainab Salbi:You know, we are the people and we are the ones with the ultimate power if we only decide to discipline ourselves and say the earth priority and the health of earth is the most important thing for us, more than our daily consumption, behaviors or whatever it is that we go about all of us in our lives, right? So it is about the power of the individual and it's about the power of the drop of water, and that drop of action does make a difference.
Zainab Salbi:And it's been only three years since we founded Daughters for Earth and we've supported about 200 women-led efforts in 50 countries around the world and now we are measuring the impact in the millions of acres that they have protected and restored and shifted to regenerative agriculture, the thousands of species they were part of protecting. And we're just starting, you know, in measuring some of that impact well, yeah, that's so interesting.
Anna Shapiro:I love that story about the hummingbird. It's such a nice one. I find I've done work with other ngos before that are also founded on small parables or stories. I think it's such a nice way, specifically in relation to what the work you do with the climate, to pull on a story like that, which is so grounded in like nature and like symbiotic relationships between individuals and organisms and the earth. I was wondering, actually building on that, because I was going to ask you to explain the hummingbird effect, which you've obviously just done. But I was wondering myself what are examples that you could provide even me like, of those small actions that can be taken each day, like in the day to day life.
Zainab Salbi:Well, I would say the first thing I would do is connect to what's happening, to the nature around you, even if you live in a city, you know. But check out your country or your province or your city or whatever. Check out what's going on in it, you know. So it could be for me it could be anywhere from really understanding your where in your country has to shift in terms of policies, in terms of productions, in terms of where in terms of productions, in terms of where the part of nature that needs to be protected, what species are endangered in your country or in your city?
Zainab Salbi:who are the other people who are doing it like? These are, for me, just basics, right. But then you go longer, you can go much more. It depends, right. So I can tell you in my lifestyle, honestly, I have very little food waste. I compose all the little food waste. So it's shifting small behavior right from, you know, being conscious about your food waste being conscious about your water waste. You know it's like just consciousness. It doesn't even take.
Zainab Salbi:These are minuscule like I never let any water to go to waste anymore. I'm like constantly, or the food, even the leftover food. As I peel my onion, I boil it and do something with it, right, so there's constantly waste. It depends on, for also, where you live my toothbrush, you know. You know how much plastic in our toothbrush or in our floss. So now I actually go out of my way and research what toothbrushes that are more environmentally sustainable, what floss packages that are more environmentally sustainable, what garbage bags are more environmentally sustainable?
Zainab Salbi:If you live in a countryside, don't put pesticides in your ground, for example. So these are their basic behavior. You know, from the kind of garbage bag that we need to shift to buying. You know from one that does not decompose to one that decompose into earth, right To the kind of the basic plastics that we are using in our daily lives. I mean it's all over us. Right To the fashion. I mean I love fashion, I love clothes, but the discipline I impose on myself before I buy anything I ask is this sustainable production? Is this ethical? How did you source it? Who are the farmers? How did you source it? Who are the farmers? How did you pay? Most people don't understand these answers. Most sales agents don't answer. But I then do my research about the fashion companies and if I love a shirt that is not sustainable, it is my duty to say I have to not buy it right, it's just an option and it's a choice.
Zainab Salbi:And living consistently does have some discipline in it, right, and there are amazing, beautiful things that are sustainable, that we can give them a chance. So being it's a mindset, it's a shift, right, and the shift goes from what are the species in my country or in my town or my city or village to what are the actions that I am doing that are contributing to. Also, advocacy One of the most important deterrents to companies is regulations. It's actually less consumer behavior, unfortunately, because some, because apparently a lot of consumers don't care. But it's regulations, right. Yeah, I mean you can be the one that advocates to regulations in your again city, town, government, country, doesn't matter, you know, because that is number one best deterrent for companies you know or?
Zainab Salbi:incentives rather to shift their behavior. Yeah, and a more ethical, more kinder way to observe.
Anna Shapiro:Yeah, yeah, that's really interesting and I guess we're seeing that now. I mean, I'm sure you're aware of all of this, but in like, specifically in recent years, pushes towards a lot more regulation on corporations behaviors with regards to the environment, social impact etc. So I guess we can hope that all that legislation comes to have an impact that we can see on, um, yeah, corporations behaviors and impact across the globe. Um, I guess actually, kind of following on from that, I was wondering this is a question I was going to ask later on, but it flows quite nicely now If you could implement any policy or legal changes in any country in a very idealistic way, you have all the power to support climate activists and ensure environmental justice. What do you think that would have to be?
Zainab Salbi:What do you think that would have to be? That's a very good question and I don't feel I'm equipped to answer it, to be honest, because I'm not a policy-oriented person. But without being a policy-oriented someone, the first thing I honestly would prioritize is conservation efforts of land and water and biodiversity protection. That would be if I was in politics. That would be if I was in politics. That would be the first thing I would. This is mapped. The scientists have mapped each country where it needs to conserve right so I would do this as one of the first regulation.
Zainab Salbi:The second regulation would be shifting to regenerative agriculture. A lot of that means supporting a lot of local farmers in their shift to regenerative agriculture. That simply means the health of the soil is the most essential thing, basically for the way we farm, because healthy soil is a very important factor in carbon sequestering and unhealthy soil becomes carbon sink, and so we are. We need to keep the healthiness of, let's say, this, individual if you look at soil as individual to keep on performing.
Zainab Salbi:Yeah, and because and the way we're doing right now is making healthy someone sick and that sickness adds, you know, as to the pressure of the illness itself, rather than solve it right do you see what I? Mean, and so yeah, these are basic things that I would advocate for as as one of the first uh things, but again, I'm not an expert on that no, but again, it's just interesting because everyone brings a different perspective based on their background and work.
Anna Shapiro:So like it's very interesting to hear what you even if you're not in policy what you have to say about that. Um, this is slightly foraying into like the views, um, like remit, wherein we're obviously concerned a lot with criminal justice and women impacted by the justice system, but in the uk there's recently been legislation passed allowing climate activists to be prosecuted under anti-terrorism laws, and we're seeing similar like changes happen specifically in the us and across the globe. Um, I was wondering what you believe is driving this, or if you have any thoughts as to what is driving this crackdown on climate activists and what do you think it signals for the future of climate activism do not stop the activism, uh no.
Zainab Salbi:People who want about any changes in the world, from ending slavery to ending uh, to to try to get equality for women have done that without any suffering and persecution.
Zainab Salbi:People are afraid of change, people feel threatened by change, and so those who are leading change are not to change in their values, but maybe adopt change in their strategies, in their style and whatever all of us. I believe there is no such thing as good activism and bad activism. I think there is. The ecosystem of activism is all good between those who are very loud and those who are demonstrating and those who are tactful and sitting at the negotiating tables and negotiating. All are part of an ecosystem to try to change a system, and that ecosystem requires everyone to engage in different ways. It all helps lead to the change, and so it comes back with it, comes back to being being. A change entails fear and entails threats, basically to the status quo, and I would say so don't change we have. This is important. This is about. This is about the future, it's about our life, it's about humans. To be honest, you know, it's about the wellbeing of humanity and our future humanity. Right, because earth is going to survive. It's just us we're not going to survive, right? Yeah, so, but I would. But I would also value the different meanings of activism.
Zainab Salbi:Often, we think activism as just going on demonstrations, and for me. A lawyer who is sitting and negotiating at the negotiating tables for regulations in her suit is equally an activist, even if she doesn't look like that the activism. And a journalist who is reporting on stories that is important is equally an activist. We cannot narrow the meaning of activism into only meaning certain things, right? I think we need to look wide in the meaning of activism. I think a spiritual leader who is meditating and talking about the connections to earth is also an activist for earth, right? So we are to widen the meaning of activism and we are to explore what is real for us and how it resonates for us, rather than narrow it down as only one thing. And that widening of that meaning, that organizing and coordinating with other activists as I said, the lawyers and the spiritual leader and everyone that helps us change or accomplish the change we are asking for.
Anna Shapiro:Yeah, that's really interesting. Actually, it's a thing I have encountered a lot just in my brief experience. But amongst the left, amongst people trying to fight for justice and equality, etc. There does seem to be often this conflict between what is right and wrong, and what's productive and what's reductive, etc. And yeah, I agree with you and that's lovely to hear that articulated that actually in this expansive sense of what it is to be an activist and contribute, everyone has their part and, as you say, like, if it's an ecosystem consisting of different people and different professions, then comes together in this symbiotic way where everyone can be fighting in a different way towards one cause and we have to be compassionate to each other.
Zainab Salbi:We can't strive to get better treatment of Earth when we are harsh on each other and we're critical of each other and when we are destroying each other. This climate change crisis requires us to collaborate, and so if we cannot collaborate at the basic of our actions, then we are doing the opposite thing. Earth collaborates, nature collaborates between the different species and the different trees, and we need to learn collaboration much more than conquesting or judgmental or whatever, and that everyone is guilty of. You know everyone, and so for me is we're all here on the same boat, trying to do the same thing. Well, we need to be more compassionate to each other as we all advocate for us, and how do we sometimes? Sometimes, kindness has more impact in creating change, and kind style has more impact in creating change than the loud, forceful one, and sometimes loud, forceful one, and that's why I'm saying I don't have judgment of which one, but I have judgment of the judgment itself that we can have each other, yeah, yeah yeah, that's really interesting.
Anna Shapiro:Another thought I had while you were speaking previously as well, kind of reflecting on my own question of um, the crackdown in climate activists and legislation and policing etc. Is, if you I was just thinking based on what you were saying if you, if I reflect back throughout history on the suffragettes, for example, and the violence with which they were met and how they were imprisoned and really policed in quite an aggressive, violent way and the like. The anti-slavery movement producing the civil war and the states and across the also, to your point, like all movements that are worthwhile and fighting a big structural injustice, have big opposition to them and that's always been the way. So I suppose it's always. It would be bizarre if that wasn't continuing on now in how people are treating climate activists. Yeah, yeah, I suppose. A final question I would have is just potentially two parts. But what does success look like to you in the long term of climate justice and what would you hope for future generations and the world they would inherit?
Zainab Salbi:That's a very good question. I think each one of us will define it differently. Obviously, for us to truly solve climate change, in my opinion, and the loss of biodiversity at the bottom of it, at the center of it, we need to change our relation with our economy. I think right with the meaning of consumption and how we go about consumption. Right, so that that cannot continue, that the industrialization that we're going through, or the consume without thoughtfulness in, in buying and in what we're using, it's just really destructive, right? So for me, that is at the essence, um, of what is the change that ultimately we need to do.
Zainab Salbi:So I'm not saying no consumption or no production, but I'm saying it's a shift of how we use and what we use, and and understanding that this is a symbiotic relationship of a give and take with mother earth. Right, that is that, that era of just extract without thinking that there is a limit, can't, yeah, yeah, I mean just it can't, right? So the fundamentals of that is that, in my opinion, and that requires shifts for all of us, basically, right. So that's I don't know if I answered your question, but it's hard because everyone will have a different perspective at it. For me, that is the fundamentals, but on the short term, success for me.
Zainab Salbi:I don't know if we'll accomplish it, but that women's leadership will be much. I actually really believe, if women are included at the decision-making tables of not only how do we solve the issue on different sectors, from the economy to politics, to our relationships with resources, to our policies, to our if women, if we put more women women at the table, some of them are going to be good, some of them are going to be bad.
Zainab Salbi:The good and the bad and the ugly exist with women and men but that a different perspective that women bring are important, and that's giving more attention to giving more attention that we are currently having to females perspective is actually very important in shifting their paradigm of how we are thinking.
Zainab Salbi:And and in the meantime, we've just got to support we just I mean, as the world feels to distract itself from climate change, we need to put more energy in those who are on the front lines of protecting and conserving the earth. I mean, that's my biggest worry right now. So success on the short term is just making sure that these efforts of conservation, biodiversity protection, regenerative agriculture are supported to last, because they're sort of doing it for all of us. It's not for community X or Y, it's really for all of us. And until the world change, which the economic change I don't know what it will take Until that happens, we need to put a lot of energy and attention to the current work of conservation and biodiversity protection. And for me, because they are less corrupt and more efficient and that means putting more energy and more resources in the hands of women who are doing that work.
Anna Shapiro:Yeah, that's really interesting and I suppose I wouldn't have necessarily thought of it in this way.
Anna Shapiro:But what that made me think is that in the short term, success is just via women, but in general, just the inclusion of a different perspective, in that the world as it is today has been created by one very specific perspective being enforced massively on the rest of the globe. So to shift that power dynamic will bring about a shift, if it's gendered or cultural, etc. Indeed, yeah, and that made me think also, I think I I am not very much a expert in any capacity with the environment, but if I were to think about how the modern world was very much structured by, um, the like symbiotic processes of colonization and the development of capitalism and the exploitative relationship with the land that engendered and also destroying this way of living that people once did throughout the world, of living with the land and in a like regenerative, as you say, like kind way, that actually it's the way our current economic system works and was enforced on the world's nations and societies, it's yeah that that needs to be changed and overturned.
Zainab Salbi:So I suppose I would agree with you in that sense and definitely answers the question it's just we need to connect instead of disconnect basically you know, with earth, with each other, frankly, you know yeah and with nature in a different way than that we have been and we like the whole individualization process needs to yeah, in my opinion, be based on or shift to reconnection with our hearts, with each other, with nature as a way and as part of the solution.
Maile Monds:We hope you enjoyed this episode of the Rebel Justice podcast. Zainab's story is a powerful reminder that Justice for Women is deeply connected to justice for the earth. You can support the View magazine, a social enterprise that receives no government funding, by subscribing for just £20 a year that includes four digital issues and one print edition. Follow us on our social media and thanks for listening. Let us know what you think.