What if you were thrust into an alien world where every move was monitored and every freedom restrained? That's the startling reality that encapsulates Anna Delvey's (Anna Sorokin) journey. A journey woven with the threads of being a fallen socialite, an immigrant, and a victim of the justice system. Anna, best known from Netflix's 'Inventing Anna', joins us to pull back the curtains on her life, both within the prison walls and after her release.
From serving café meals to officers in a bakery assistant role while being a vegetarian, to rubbing shoulders with the infamous Harvey Weinstein in prison, Anna shares the surreal tales of her prison life. However, the most heart-wrenching part of her story lies in her struggle against the infantilizing prison system, gender violence, and the trauma that led to her longest sentence of 15 and a half months. Can you imagine the crushing feeling of being recalled for a tweet about your probation officer?
As we navigate the world outside the prison with Anna, she opens up about the trials of her day-to-day life post-release, marked with an ankle monitor as a constant reminder of her past. We delve deep into her ongoing immigration case, the ominous threat of being extradited back to Germany, and the ramifications of a potential life-long ban from the country she once called home. Anna’s story is a testament to resilience and redemption, a riveting narrative that brings to light the struggles of immigrants, the flawed justice system, and the concept of fair punishment. Tune in, for this is a narrative that begs to be heard.
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What if you were thrust into an alien world where every move was monitored and every freedom restrained? That's the startling reality that encapsulates Anna Delvey's (Anna Sorokin) journey. A journey woven with the threads of being a fallen socialite, an immigrant, and a victim of the justice system. Anna, best known from Netflix's 'Inventing Anna', joins us to pull back the curtains on her life, both within the prison walls and after her release.
From serving café meals to officers in a bakery assistant role while being a vegetarian, to rubbing shoulders with the infamous Harvey Weinstein in prison, Anna shares the surreal tales of her prison life. However, the most heart-wrenching part of her story lies in her struggle against the infantilizing prison system, gender violence, and the trauma that led to her longest sentence of 15 and a half months. Can you imagine the crushing feeling of being recalled for a tweet about your probation officer?
As we navigate the world outside the prison with Anna, she opens up about the trials of her day-to-day life post-release, marked with an ankle monitor as a constant reminder of her past. We delve deep into her ongoing immigration case, the ominous threat of being extradited back to Germany, and the ramifications of a potential life-long ban from the country she once called home. Anna’s story is a testament to resilience and redemption, a riveting narrative that brings to light the struggles of immigrants, the flawed justice system, and the concept of fair punishment. Tune in, for this is a narrative that begs to be heard.
For more unmissable content from The View sign up here
The prospect of interviewing fallen socialite Anna Delvey or Anna Sorokin of Netflix's Notorious Inventing Anna series is both a coup and a responsibility for the views Rebel Justice podcast. Anna shocked New York High Society when her elaborate ruse to set up an arts foundation fell apart and details of her check-kiting hit society gossip column page 6 of the New York Post the go-to for every discerning New Yorker for their local gossip. At the view, we believe that all women are capable of redemption and we stay clear of language that humiliates and judges offender, fraudster, ex-con, criminal. We're all far bigger than the worst thing that we've ever done. We don't believe in the language of the Victorian philanthropist offered to the deserving poor. We don't aspire to methods of coercive re-realtation. Rather, we wish to create an open space to give people a platform to recast their own narratives and retell their own stories. I am Farah Damji, one of the women who started the view almost four years ago, and that mission has been at the heart of this podcast, for many of you will be familiar with Anna's story. It was told by dozens of news outlets and millions of words all over the world and, of course, the Netflix series Inventing Anna.
Farah Damji:However, not much has been said by Anna herself about her own experience, the trauma she went through and how she coped with it, through her art, drawn from her training as a fashion illustrator in Paris. I wanted to approach her carefully, not to re-trigger trauma or pain, and it was important for me as a host to draw out the vulnerability that I sensed behind the oversized designer sunglasses and the bejeweled GPS tag that she was forced to wear while she was under house arrest. I deliberately tried not to listen or read too much background, but I couldn't help but glean the sharp intellectual observations in articles for the Daily Mail that she had made about the justice system, about gender violence inflicted by the state and around the constant feeling of being an immigrant or an outsider. And that's where this interview begins. I've read some really interesting things that you've written about the experience of women and kind of gender in prison. So how would you describe it?
Anna Delvey:Well, it was very frustrating in a sense that, like you're always relying on somebody else to do things for you, I was just like very, like, just very infantilizing. It's like you know, just jail takes away everything, that takes away all your freedom. It's like you know, if you want to book, there's no possible way for you to like get a book unless somebody will send it to you. Like there's just nothing you can do in a world like that will get it for you.
Farah Damji:Yes, your choices are just taken away, aren't they? You're kind of like the most basic choices of sleeping, eating, going to the toilet everything is just taken away. It's extremely infantilizing, and, I think, much more so for women. I think it's a lot harder for women. When you get out.
Farah Damji:Life is madly crazy, hectic and like time just takes on all different. Like time in prison is so slow. Well, for me, anna, it was so slow. Like days would feel like months, and then you come out. It's like suddenly you turn around this Friday again. I don't know if it's been like that for you. How long did you deal? The longest sentence I did was 15 and a half months, which was an unlawful recall. When they were crossed with me for tweeting something about my probation officer, I was pretty pissed off. But then I got out, the Pro Board let me out and told them that I was not a risk to society or anyone else and that I shouldn't have been recalled. And yours was what? Two, and it was yours four and a half years. So you did how many? You did half of that.
Anna Delvey:That's four to 12. So the laws are different, like it varies, from state to state. So my sentence was four to 12. My minimum would be four years. My math would be 12. Assuming I would like for all the instructions and X, Y, Z, like I was let out on my merit, which was three years, four months.
Farah Damji:And also because of COVID. I think they were trying to let people out earlier as well, there weren't they?
Anna Delvey:Well, it's actually was really funny. They did because they said if you are six months away from your release date, we would release you. But they did not release me. My release date was like the beginning of February and I wasn't obviously in violation of my immigration status and I used to come see me all the time, so they kind of kept me in.
Anna Delvey:When Biden took the office in end of January 2021. He imposed like a moratorium on all deportations and, like he tried to like make some changes. So beginning of February, they didn't really know what to do with me, so they just released me. They gave me a day to report, six weeks from my restate, which was like on March 23rd originally. They pushed it to 25th and then, once I went to report there, I guess they were the more clear on the rules and they decided like they were okay to deport me. So I've been in the system for a very long time. It's like I've been there for like half a decade pretty much. Yeah, I got arrested like beginning of October 2017. I think actually, it's October 20th, like this year. So it's like it's been five years, except for like six weeks I've been out last year.
Farah Damji:What were the challenges? Besides the prison officers, who are just universally useless. I think it's a job where people go into, hopefully, with good intentions, but they're just so squashed by the system that it's very hard for them to make any changes. But what challenges did you have to overcome on a daily basis? What did you find the hardest to deal with there?
Anna Delvey:What I found out is that people are just people in a way and everybody is like trying to figure it out. So, like the most officers, especially like in prison, which was like an upstate New York now the end it's like it was either Walmart or the prison. It's like you know, it was not really like the top career choice, it was just like all the new really. And yeah, I think like the whole idea of prison, where it's like supposed to be punishment on you but like in the end the people who get punished, is like your relatives and your friends who like have to pay for the calls, they have to like put money in your account.
Anna Delvey:It's like you know you're not going to say no to somebody who's in jail because like no way of getting anything for themselves. It's like you know there's just no way you can like get a job or anything. Like you know the most I've ever made in the state prison would be like $10 in two weeks. That was like God. Yeah, it's like literally it's impossible to be self sustainable. I know it's different in federal prison because they have like some kind of a different way of compensation. They actually have some way of like making more money, but in the state. It's not like that at all.
Farah Damji:So what were you doing? What was your job in prison?
Anna Delvey:I started off, they made me go to GED. Well, they made me do like GED classes because they had to wait until they had to confirm that I actually graduated high school from Germany. So it took a couple of weeks. So I had to like attend that and it's like it's mandatory. You have no choice but to attend those. So once they confirmed that I actually graduated high school, they put me in the mess hall. I hated it, it was bad.
Anna Delvey:The mess hall is like where you like it's in the dining hall, right. You started off there like in this same way goes to like any kitchen. You start off from like the very bottom, which would be like the dish washing. So it's like I asked them for like the yellow gloves and I was like I'm just not washing anything until, like unless you just give me the gloves. It's like all this like heavy duty stuff, like the big pans, and I was just like I was so slow and useless and everybody was just like so annoyed with me. I'm like this is really hard work. For some reason, they transferred me like a week later to an actual class. So it's like you know you have to take the culinary arts, or like you have to like take a vocational training, pretty much, in order for them to like be able to say it's like oh well, now she has a skill which is not her crime.
Farah Damji:So we might be seeing an Anna Delvy Michelin starred restaurant very soon, I hope.
Anna Delvey:Pretty much, yes. So it's like I picked the one with the most waiting list because I felt like, oh well, they will never pick me, because it's like everybody wants to be in culinary arts and it would be like a mathematics class and like welding, like I don't know building maintenance or something, something like that. So, and it's like they picked me like a week later and I was so disappointed.
Farah Damji:So what did you learn in this culinary class? What did they teach you? I worked in the kitchen at Drake Hall and we did really basic things like shepherd's pie and lasagna, but then they discovered that I'm actually quite good at baking, so I used to bake pastries for the governor. He had a real sweet tooth, so it was always the clairs and shoe pastry and stuff which I loved. But yeah, there's not much variety in a prison menu. So what did they teach you in this culinary arts class?
Anna Delvey:So it's pretty much. I mean, I don't know, I learned like a lot of actually like basic stuff, how like to preserve food. It would be the food safety, how long you're allowed to like keep something out and like the heating and like the cooling of stuff. So that was actually really useful in a way. It's like you know. It's like you can use it in everyday life too. It's like how long you can like preserve like I don't know olive oil with garlic in it and stuff.
Anna Delvey:And because I was a vegetarian, I told them I would not be touching meat. So they put me like on a bakery, like a baker assistant position, so I was like baking cookies. I was really funny because we had like a little cafe which would be open to like the officers and to the employees of the prison, so we would like sell them the stuff that we would be making. Also civilians for like teaching, like all these other classes, you know, the gussmetology, the welding, the building maintenance and stuff like that. So it would be catered to them. They were kind of like I don't know few of them, so we would like cater to them. So it's like this one woman. She would be like on a keto diet so we made like a cauliflower pizza for her. We tried to keep it healthy.
Farah Damji:Yeah, it's so funny the things you remember this day. I bet you can't look at a cauliflower in the same way anymore.
Anna Delvey:Yeah, I'm trying to like not project of experiences, because it's like in a way it was bad but it was not like awful, you know. It's like I don't know, I guess just like not being able to have control of your choices. Like you know, it's like you have to do those things. So it's like just like if you don't like, they're gonna like lock you in in the room and like say you're like not in compliance. So that was frustrating, just like not having control of your life. Like experiences themselves is like like not everything is just so awful in there, you know, but there's just a lot of people who like made a mistake and it's not like just the biggest murderers of the country, you know.
Speaker 4:Anna was convicted in 2019 on multiple counts of grand larceny and theft of services. She was sentenced to four to 12 years in prison and credited with more than 500 days of time served while her case was pending, and she was then released on good behavior in February 2021. Anna was picked up by immigration authorities just a few weeks later.
Farah Damji:We said there were an albion in Upstate New York. Where which prison was that?
Anna Delvey:That was Albion, New York. Yeah, I think that's what it's called.
Farah Damji:All right, and is that a female prison?
Anna Delvey:Yeah, that's just female. Yeah, Wendy's, which is males. I think like Harvey Weinstein was not too far away from me, but there are like so many male prisons and not only three female prisons in New York, which is Bedford, which is maximum correctional facility, then there's the Connick, which is across the street from Bedford and which is minimum, and then Albion is maximum to medium.
Farah Damji:So they kept you in maximum to medium for your whole sentence.
Anna Delvey:They kept me in medium. Yeah, because the way they count it is like if you have less than eight years until your earliest parole hearing, you are medium. So I was always medium. So, because my earliest parole hearing would be after three years four months.
Farah Damji:Oh, I see it's completely different. That's such a fascinating insight into how different the US is from here, because here what we have? Very few. Obviously England's a much, much smaller country, but there's only 12 women's prisons and they're all basically maximum security, except two which are open conditions where women can go out to work and do education, stuff like that. What was the first thing you did when you left prison?
Anna Delvey:I was actually outside for six weeks. I mean, they always knew I was in violation of my immigration status and it's like that's not a secret obviously Like I'll have a state my visa If you do not fold off my own, and I'm like, well, yeah, like you know, you're in violation. They came to see me like a couple of times Then. I guess two days before my scheduled release date they came and they were like, oh well, you're not a priority anymore, because it was exactly after Biden took the office, because my release date was scheduled for February 15th or something and he took the office like end of January. So I guess he like put a moratorium for like any deportation. So I guess they did not know what to do with me. They just like, whatever, we're gonna release you and they just gave me like a day six weeks away from then.
Farah Damji:So then six weeks later they came and arrested you and he went back into the immigration detention center. So that's quite a different experience, because when you're in prison, at least if you have an end date, you can kind of wrap your head around it and there's an end goal and there's a light at the end of the tunnel and you can cross off your days and whatever else you do. But the immigration detention center, that whole situation where it's so precarious, where there's no end date, must have been psychologically quite difficult to manage. How did you handle that?
Anna Delvey:Yeah, it's like it was very difficult. I think it would be like the most, one of the most challenging ones of the kind of like psychological exercises that like I ever had ever. Because it's like with criminal sentence you have an end date, while with immigration you could like spend 10 years there and like there's no guarantee that you will ever be let out. Here, you know it's not like, oh well, sit in jail for like 18 months and we're gonna let you out. That's not the way it works. It's like I don't even. I think it's such a shame that America like equalizes immigration infractions to criminal misdeeds, because you know it's like why, like I already served my sentence. How do you repeat my resolution? Why am I in the same conditions as somebody who's like being accused of a crime?
Farah Damji:Yeah, it's terrible. We've got the same problem here. We've got the most absolutely revolting home secretary called Suella Braverman who's putting people 4,000 people in a detention center where there's meant to be 1600. And literally, you know, they're actually sending bottles of messages over the wall to journalists and begging to be let out. And it's just such a huge embarrassment that these first world governments and first world countries are treating people who've fled places of war and famine and terror and we're treating them like criminals. It's so shameful, it's just. I'm so ashamed of the way that our government is behaving at the moment towards asylum seekers and migrants, because it's just horrific. You know they put them. They've got scabies, they've got diphtheria, they've got the most awful diseases. These people have left awful places, poverty, stricken places, to come here for respite and sanctuary, and we treat them worse than animals. It's just shameful. So what was the first thing that you did when you got out of the detention center?
Anna Delvey:So this time around, it's like literally, they had to drive me. So it's like they picked me up from the jail and then they drove me to the 26 federal pass. I was just like the main ice hub. They fitted me for an ankle bracelet and I had like to wait for the guy to like who's specializing in ankle bracelets to come over, which was like on Friday 11 PM, and then, because since I was in house arrest, they drove me to the apartment. Like they wouldn't even let the people who were waiting for me downstairs to pick me up, yeah, like I threw me to my apartment because I guess I couldn't be trusted to like make my own way there. I mean whatever, just the conditions. So they were just following the conditions that Josh imposed.
Anna Delvey:So it's like, you know, it's a trickle down thing. It's just like they're just following in the rules. Like not everybody is just so full. Once I arrived I mean I was a friend of mine, chris he had to like open the door and then New York Times showed up and like some German publications and we had a little interview and like I went to sleep. So it was very late. It was like midnight, way past midnight.
Farah Damji:You must have been exhausted. How do you feel about this ankle bracelet? Have they got one of these new DPS tracking ones on you?
Anna Delvey:I don't know like which generation of bracelet it is. It looks pretty bulky to me.
Farah Damji:Yes, but you've linked it up very nicely. It looks nice now that you've decorated it.
Anna Delvey:Yeah, well, those are the pants, but I like very hard to like kind of maintain on a long-term basis. It's like I just like put them on for like shoes and stuff. So I mean it doesn't bother me. You know it's pretty light. I like I charge it every morning. There's like an external charging station and I put on like this battery on top of it. Just like you know, there's like a portable charger, pretty much Just like I just put the battery on top of it and just like I have to charge it for an hour and scoot for a day.
Farah Damji:And how long does all this last? I know you're fighting your extradition back to Germany, so how long is this going to last, and what do you hope is the outcome?
Anna Delvey:Well, my immigration case is like being transferred, like to like the non-docated one, because once you're in jail you are like the detained, you are on the detained docket and, like, once you're out, you are non-dotated one. Basically, pretty much, it's like it's going to move forward and like we'll see what it's going to bring. So it's like I don't know, it's like the review not clear.
Farah Damji:Are you worried about the outcome? You don't want to come back to Europe. Do you want to stay? I mean, you've built a life in America.
Anna Delvey:I'd love to like sort out everything about my legal and immigration issues in the way that I would be able to travel anywhere in the world. Because, you know, like I've done what I've done, whatever it's like I've paid the restitution, as, through my time it just not like I don't think it warrants the type of the punishment where I should be banned from any single country for the rest of my life, you know.
Farah Damji:No, that's a very sensible attitude to take. Actually, I think you're very sensible to deal with it that way so that you don't have those restrictions hanging over your head forever.
Speaker 3:And that concludes part one of our fascinating interview with Anna Delvy and her unique story. Next week, tune into part two, where Anna talks about her art, her experience of house arrest and what it's like being a migrant in the US justice system.