Rebel Justice - changing the way you see justice

Episode 19: Fran Fattore, a bird who has done her bird and found freedom

May 04, 2022 Rebel Justice - The View Magazine Season 1 Episode 19
Rebel Justice - changing the way you see justice
Episode 19: Fran Fattore, a bird who has done her bird and found freedom
Rebel Justice - changing the way you see justice +
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This week we bring you Fran Fattore. Fran is one of the women photographed by Gavin Smith  for The View’s Someone’s Daughter campaign. Our Someone’s Daughter Campaign consists of women in the justice system who have been affected through committing crimes, as victims or activists or by practising as judges or barristers. Seventeen portraits from our Someone’s Daughter Exhibition are at Peter Dench’s Photo North Festival from Saturday 7 to Monday 9  May at the Bonded Warehouse in Manchester.
You can read an article by Fran in the View Magazine from Spring 2021, Rebel Justice in which she described how she found life in prison during the Covid pandemic and the difficulties of the restrictions placed on her.  She also described what life was like for her immediately post release.

Temi Fajemesin, one of the View’s student volunteers from UCL in London caught up with Fran a year later to see how life was treating her  and how she was navigating resettlement and her way through life post prison and post pandemic

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to the View Magazine's Rebel Justice podcast from our someone's daughter podcast series. This week we bring you friend, Fatto Friend is one of the women photographed by Gavin Smith for the Views Someone's Daughter campaign. Our someone's daughter campaign consists of women in the justice system who have been affected through committing crimes as victims or activists or by practicing as judges or barristers. 17 portraits from our someone's daughter exhibition are at Peter Denes Photo North Festival from Saturday, seven to Monday 9th of May at the bonded warehouse in Manchester. Listen now for more details.

Speaker 2:

This year's Photo North Festival will be hosted a bonded warehouse in Central Manchester from the seventh to 9th of May. The event brings together around a dozen exhibitions from some of the world's most distinguished photographers, which hang alongside emerging artists. The program includes a selection of portraits from the someone's daughter initiative by the View Magazine, highlighting how women prisoners are seen and understood and representatives from the View will be available throughout the festival and hosting a panel discussion on the afternoon of Sunday, the 8th of May. All of this takes place against a backdrop of film screenings, talks, portfolio reviews, competitions, book, and Zeen stores and more. There'll be the opportunity to meet some of the exhibitors, develop contacts in the industry, meet new friends, catch up with existing ones, or just relax in the company of fantastic photography. For more information, head over to photo north festival.co.uk.

Speaker 1:

You can read an article by friend in the View Magazine from Spring 2021, in which she described how she found life in prison during the Covid pandemic and the difficulties of the restrictions placed on her. She also described what life was like for her immediately post-release. Tammy fa json one of the views. Students volunteers from UCL in London caught up with Fran a year later to see how life was treating her and how she was navigating resettlement and her way through life post prison and post pandemic. Thank you, Temi.

Speaker 3:

Okay, so I wanted to start with a more general question. Your release was a year ago now, and what would you say has been the biggest adjustment you've had to make since then?

Speaker 4:

Just coming, living a normal life again to like go into work I think. Um, yeah, that was just huge. It's just obviously I spent the last year on my sentence on lockdown, so I wasn't used to meeting new people, talking to different people just felt so isolated.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I can imagine. In the article you wrote for the View Magazine, you talked about a charity that reached out to you to offer housing support as it was getting closer to your lease. Were there any other resources, charities, organizations that were offered to you or that you found particularly useful?

Speaker 4:

Um, no. I think it was just the, um, I think it was called Saint Mongo's. Um, and you have like your inside probation officer that that talks to you and just checks everything's okay. But that, that's the only people that contacted me.

Speaker 3:

And would you say that like you wish there was more support?

Speaker 4:

Do you know what like maybe now? Yeah, but the thing is, is you don't know what you need until you're out, if that makes any sense. And I guess the jail is only restricted to what they can offer and I guess that's what probation is there for when you, when you get out for the stuff that you need. And I think anyone can really sort of prepare you it, you know, like I said, they all can prepare you for what you're gonna, what you're gonna face when you come out. So now I would've preferred more support. But at the time you think that it's enough.

Speaker 3:

And is there anything in particular that you wish you had? I mean you mentioned the housing support, but anything beyond that?

Speaker 4:

Um, I think like not necessarily so much mental health, but maybe something just to, you know, make sure you are mentally prepared to go out and deal with the outside world. I think more during lockdown, I think definitely there needs to be more support for women prior to release whilst, cause I know some jails are still in the Covid restrictions. Um, so yeah, I think that that definitely needs some, some, yeah, some support on.

Speaker 3:

You also talked about missing prison during your first week out. I was wondering if you could talk more about that.

Speaker 4:

Do you know what it was straight away? It was my prison family. Um, you, you do make your own little family in there. Um, so I missed my friends. And then obviously it's the, the routine and the there's no worries. Like you have outside, like sudden you come out and then you know, you've gotta get a job, you've gotta pay bills, you've gotta do all this. So it's just kind of that definitely not an easy life, but when it comes to responsibilities it's a lot easier.

Speaker 3:

That makes a lot of sense. So I mean, you talked a bit about this already, but what would you say the main mental health challenges you faced were?

Speaker 4:

Um, for me it was like anxiety and a bit of depression as well. Um, yeah, just coming out, talking to people, being in surroundings cause it, I I wasn't in my home anymore and going into a new job, um, I only knew one person, so it was like, oh, I wasn't at home. I, I didn't feel safe. Um, well obviously I knew I was safe, but it just, yeah, it just anxiety I think was the worst for me at first.

Speaker 3:

Okay. Kind of a different subject, but more generally, do you think women are treated differently to men in the justice system?

Speaker 4:

From, from what they say? Yeah, I do think so. Uh, my am my actual boss actually, he, he's been to prison a few years back and from the way he described stories and stuff like that, I mean the amount, you know, they're locked up on a forget covid situations. Um, I feel like there's more support for women than there is men.

Speaker 3:

So recently in the news there's been talk of them introducing a new apprenticeship program for people towards their end of their release or I think it was in, if they were in open jails. Um, I was wondering what you thought about that, about um, the opportunity for them to learn new skills to help with employment after their release?

Speaker 4:

Yeah, I think it's amazing. I think it, it will give people that confidence and stuff to go out there and, and they'll already either be trained up or they'll have a job waiting for'em. It will stop so much reoffending, um, because you know, people come out, they struggle and then it's like people don't wanna give them a ch ask a chance or you know, certain people a chance and then they just go back to their old ways.

Speaker 3:

Why do you think it's so important to speak out about issues surrounding women and rehabilitation?

Speaker 4:

Just don't think there's enough, there's enough of it out there. I don't think people have an understanding of what damages it causes for, um, certain women, especially for example, you know, like short sensitive sentences where people can lose their children. There's, there's so many effects that can cause more damage than good and I don't think it spoke about enough.

Speaker 3:

No, definitely. So I was wondering if you could talk a little bit more about your involvement in the someone's daughter exhibition and why you think the portrait is so important.

Speaker 4:

Um, so soon as I came out, I got, I got reached out by the, the View magazine and I'd done a story and obviously learned a lot about them more. And I just think it's amazing cuz it's the only, they're the only ones that I've seen just pushing so hard for it. They've seem so passionate about what they do and they're just supporting what, what is right. And yeah, and they've, they've supported me, you know, they've, they, they've done sort of interviews with me that had, um, bigger things come on because of them, but they also offered me counseling and stuff like that. They even put me in contact with counselor if I needed to speak to him and stuff like that. It's really good what they do.

Speaker 3:

Would you say that there's like a sort of community or a sense of community with you and people are in similar positions to you?

Speaker 4:

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, cuz we all have an understanding and you know, and most of us want to change. Most of us want to better ourselves and want to better future and, and there's so much stigma on prisoners and stuff like that. They just, people just, you know, you say, you know, I'm an ex-prisoner straight away, they have this, this view on you and stuff. I to forget that, you know, we all make mistakes.

Speaker 3:

Is there any personal experiences of you or people you know, experiencing like the result I guess of this stigma?

Speaker 4:

No, I mean, I, I think I'm quite lucky actually. You know, I am one of the lucky ones. Uh, I've got a job straight away. I started work two weeks after coming out, um, with my old boss that I used to work for before I went to jail. But you see, and you hear people, you know, I do stuff on Twitter and stuff like that and I, I, I look a lot of what sort of people say and they're struggling to get jobs and, and you just know. And, and I've had, um, some people approach me about jobs actually saying that I have had a few, um, cuz straight away if someone approaches me about a job, you know, through Indeed or whatever, and that's straight away, I'll be honest and I'll go look, I've come out of jail and sometimes I'm waiting to get a response. So, and it's just kinda like you've made that judgment, you know, and it's quite a big thing for someone to be open and honest straight away, you know, I'm not even worthy of response. Like, sorry, you know, I'll even put in the end of it, you know, I understand if I don't meet the criteria now and I still won't even go unfortunately. I'm sorry you don't, it's just, just ignore. So

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Knowing what you know now, what, if anything would you have done differently upon your release or what advice might you give to other people in a similar position to you?

Speaker 4:

Do you know what? I don't actually think I would do anything differently. Um, because I believe in everything that we go through. It makes us stronger and it's always a lesson learn and, and stuff like that. But I just advise people to get help. Like jail does offer some support. They, you know, they do what they can do and lap it up, lap any bit of support you can get up and probation because that's what probation is there for. Um, be open and honest with them. I did, um, about my mental health and they pushed it forward so I engaged with talking therapies. Just, yeah, just don't, don't sit away quiet. Like there is help out there. It might take a bit of time, but just take as much as you can.

Speaker 3:

Thank you very much for your time. I really enjoyed speaking with you. Good

Speaker 4:

Welcome.

Speaker 1:

And this concludes our talk for today. Thank you so much for your insights, Fran. And thank you Temi. Do come along to Photo North Festival and see the portrait in an incredible setting. And come by for our talk on Sunday, the 8th of May at 2:00 PM with Gail Hatfield Grainger illegal executive Samantha Assu, the founder of Media Diversified Morgan, a woman with lived experience of the justice system. And Max McNally, a partner at Hatfield grander McNally for our talk on how women are affected when the state fails in its duty to protect US women versus the state. Thank you for listening.

Photo North Festival Promo
Adjustment After Release
After Release Support
Missing Prison
Mental Challenges
Men and Women in Justice System
Work After Release
Women After Release
Someone's Daughter Exhibition
Community after Release